Class I or II Boomer?

[Anonymous Poster]

First time poster, although I've been lurking for awhile. We recently purchased 5 acres in rural Okeechobee, Florida, not too far from the Big Lake. Land is flat, sandy, has some wet spots that should dry up when our pond is dug, scattered live oak, red maple, saw palmetto, wax myrtle and queen palms -- we're going to leave as many native trees and shrubs as possible. Remainder will be grass - manicured near house, otherwise fieldgrass. Daughter next door has 2-1/2 acres, nearly all cleared and decent grass. Between us we have 2 garden-variety lawn tractors, but I'm gonna need a little bit more serious tractor.

I'm already convinced Blue and compact is the way to go. I love the TC33D, but the price is a little out of range. Dealer is pretty firm at $19,000 with 7308 loader and no other implements - by the time I add box blade and cutter, would be over $20K. I can't get that past my other half. Dealer does have a 300 hour TC33D with loader and some other brand backhoe (Bradco?), but I'm not sure I need the hoe, and I think it would be difficult to convert back and forth to the 3 point. He wants $17K with no other implements.

The dealer thinks I might be wanting too much tractor. I'll be using it for maintenace of a dirt driveway, getting rid of nuisance shrubs (wild grapevine and brazilian pepper), mowing, fairly light loader use, and handling pallets (under 700 pounds). He's recommending the TC18, 4wd hydrostatic, 12LA loader, and will include a 4' rhino bush mower and a 4' box blade for a total of $14,800. He'll also swap to any tires I want (turf on it now, but I'll probably go with industrials, at least until all the wet ground is eliminated). He's also convinced me that the 21 or 24 HP are not worth the (considerable) extra $$$ in the same Class I frame.

I can get that price past the better half. My question is, will I be sorry later for buying the smaller tractor? Actually, what I need is a bigger tractor now, while construction is going on, and the smaller one later for maintenance. But, we're subbing out the rough clearing (Cat 436 with brush rake), and my primary first job will be to box blade all the ruts from the big machine, and drag out the remaining roots from the ($%@*%$) wild grape vines. I have enough time to do it with the smaller box blade.

I guess what I really want is someone to say, "Sure, the smaller tractor will be fine as long as you take your time."

Don Horner

 

[SAM123]

I really do think you would be sorry if you bought the smaller tractor.
I would try to no end to have her see things your way and the both of you will be better off. It's only money not your health.

Good Luck,

Sam /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[spencer200]

at that price your dealer is in the 2700.00 range for profit he should be willing to give some of that up or find yourself another dealer!

 

[spencer200]

Also if you have to cut cost I would look at the TC30 this is a lot of tractor for the money and almost as much HP as the TC33.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Spencer, is that profit for the 33, the 18, or either/both? Say I make it a package deal, like the 18 - TC33D, 7308 loader, 5' Rhino bush hog, 5' unknown brand box blade. What should I offer him?

 

[spencer200]

thats on the tc33 he should be happy with 1500.00 to 1800.00 over his cost.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

OK, I just talked to the dealer again. I can't get a sense of how much he'd budge on the TC33D - I might be able to get the bush hog and box blade thrown in @$19K. He's also going to work up a price for me on a TC29D that has about 20 demo hours on it, but still qualifies for new warranty and 0% financing. His quote, without haggling, for a TC30, 4WD, hydro, w/7308 loader, was ~$17.5K.

The dealer is Sunrise Tractor, stores in Fort Pierce, West Palm Beach and Okeechobee, FL, a fine, old-line tractor company since the 40's, now run by a reputable person I know. A first class dealer, with no worries about warranty, pickup & delivery, field repairs, etc. - Okeechobee is rural and a major tractor market, so they have someone running around there all the time.

On the other hand, they are the only dealer within 100 miles, and I think they know it - which, combined with their excellent service, is why they don't have to dicker price. I'm willing to pay something for that kind of reputation (even though price is my wife's primary concern).

I'm going to do something, even if it's wrong /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif , within the next week to 10 days, so I appreciate any help or advice here. Once I get the tractor and a little experience, I'll be able to pay it back...

Don

 

[John_Mc]

I've heard of folks getting $17,500 for a TC33D w/7308 loader up here in Vermont & upstate NY. (those numbers are a bit old, but were also when there were no major factory incentives going on). I just heard from my dealer that there is a bit of a price/financing war going on between NH and Kubota (he deals in both), so you may get some decent deals of you shop around.

Make sure he's including the heavy duty bucket in your price. The light duty isn't worth much, IMO.

John Mc

 

[thcri]

Don,

I know this won't help you much but I bought a TC29D with hydro and supersteer. Pretty much deluxe. I got the 72" MMM and the 7308 loader with a 60" bucket. I paid just under 20,000.00 Broken out the tractro was under $15,000 and the loader was 2400.00 and the mower was $2,450.00. But prices vary some area to area.

The other thing I want to tell you is I first purchased a TC21D and because of my hills I was pretty much forced to take it back and trade in on the 29. I really was going after the 25 but the dealer said it was only $400 more to go to the 29 and then another $800 to go to the 33. If you go with the 18 I really believe you will be sorry. I have two acres you have 5 plus another 2.5.

If finances are in the way look at the new TC30. Doesn't have all the features but would work great for you. Also Case IH has the same tractors except for super steer. You might want to check with them on pricing but I think your New Holland dealer is a bit hi.

murph

 

[Steelfan]

Hi OkeeDon,

Your post is very interesting. I was in pretty much the same boat that you are now about a year ago. The uses that you mention here are very suitable for a Class 1 Boomer. You stated mowing grass, and light loader work. All of these can be done with a TC18 through TC24. And a big thing that you should consider is "How is the lawn going to look after I mow it ?" The heavier the tractor the bigger the tracks, and with my Mid Mount Mower, the lawn looks great. I won't tell you that a Class 1 Boomer is right for you , but I will tell you that it works for me. And I use mine hard, mowing, loader work, and such. Good Luck.

Kent

 

[SAM123]

I got a sweet deal on my TN75S. I went around to four dealers to find the best deal. After that I picked a number that I could live with and I went back to each dealer and said "will you beat or match this price from an out of state dealer" and low and behold one dealer did match the price.
By the way, the best deal was 29,500 so I made up the 28,775 and the dealer took the bait!

Just wheel and deal, /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif they want your business

Sam

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Boy, I appreciate all the answers. thcri, yours may be the closest. The dealer is pricing out a TC29D for me; I should hear tomorrow. It has had maybe 20 hours of demo. They can use that as an excuse to lower the price without compromising their policies. I do the same in my own business; I don't compromise on price, but I am willing to take trade-ins /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif . It'll be interesting to see what they come up with. Based on your price, anything less than 17,500 for the TC29D and loader will be a good deal. I told him to price it as a package with the box blade and bush hog - both "off" brands, I'm sure, but good enough for my uses.

Beleive me, I would love to shop the price at some other dealers, but there are three dealers within 100 miles - and they are all Sunrise Tractor! I suppose I could "play the game" and get a price from Ocala or somewhere more than 150 miles away, but I know the GM at Sunrise - he's smart enough to know I'm playing the game, and smart enough to know that I won't give up his service to take a cheaper price. So, he can call my bluff.

Question - I haven't seen my dealer's used TC33D with backhoe, but the salesman tells me the backhoe comes off pretty easy, and the 3 point hitch is still in place. I can buy it for around $17,000 with about 300 hours. Here's my thought - I can use the backhoe, now, while I'm doing footers and trenching, and then sell just the backhoe unit when I'm done the new construction. The salesman tells me it cost something like $6800 new. Is there a market for such an animal by itself? Does anyone think I can get $3000 or so for it when I'm done with it, assuming $6800 new? That would get my total price down under $14000, get me the TC33D with a loader, and the only thing I would lose would be the 0% financing. I assume the balance of the warranty would transfer. Anyone want to take a 1 year futures option on the backhoe? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Don

 

[thcri]

Don,

Selling the backhoe for three grand would be a good price. The problem is finding someone who wants one and has a class ll boomer for it to fit on. Around here I just don't see many people with backhoe attachments. I am not sure on the price brand new, but if you use it for a couple of years for your personal usage and then if there is work in your area for it that you could make some money on it it may not be a bad deal. I just would be concerned about selling it.

Murph

 

[hazmat]

Don,

I'd advise you to get quotes from competative dealers. If the next dealer is $1,000 cheaper, use it to your advantage... Tell your local dealer you want to do business with him, but if your wife ever found out that you could have gotten a better price somewhere else, she'd divorce you & you'd default on the tractor loan. Make up a good sob story. Bring her along if you have to. -- The good old good cop/bad cop routine. He should at least meet you 1/2 way, so long as the competative prices are legit. Listen to what Spencer200 says, he know's his stuff as he is a dealer.

As far as Class 1 vs. Class 2. I have a TC18. It will do everything a bigger one will do, only slower. How much time do you have? Right now I am young and have more time & energy than money, thus the smaller tractor. I have 4 acres & find that I haven't run out of power yet. Would I like a TC33 - you bet!

I paid $15,500 for TC18 wd Hydro, Loader & MMM. Being in New England with it's high cost of living, I paid $800-$1,000 more than the best price I'd seen on TBN. The MMM was $2,500 so I think your dealer's price is a bit on the high side for that set up as well. Be sure to compare apples to apples. get him to quote each item vs. the package deal.

Another stratagy is to do your homework (search TBN, get quotes from other dealers etc). Go to the dealer and state that you are ready to buy if the price is $XX,XXX.

Good luck & You'll love your New Holland (Which ever you buy)

 

[Solo]

Okeedon
I have a TC18 and mow around 10 acres with it. I agree with your dealer that the 21 and 24 would not be worth the extra money, not saying there bad tractors, I think the weight of the 21 and 24 is to lite for the horse power they have. All of my property is kind of steep so I went with the 42" Bushhog but for something flat a 48" would work great. I also take care of an 1100'gravel driveway with a rear blade does a great job! Go for the 18 you won't be sorry.
Solo

 

[John_Mc]

Don -

I have a TC33D and love it! I use it for brush-hogging (5 ft Woods BB60) and have a boxblade with hydraulic top-n-tilt that has gotten a real work out.

I would not be at all scared of a used unit with only 300 hours. The price sounds good, with the backhoe. If the price includes an FEL, it sounds GREAT! ... Assuming, of course that it has been well maintained.

John Mc

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Well, I went back to the dealer. Sat and listened for a few minutes while another customer told the salesman he had a price from Ocala about $1500 less then my dealer. Listened to my dealer say, "Well, then go on back up there and buy it." Customer signed on the dotted line for higher price. Dealer knows Ocala is too far away for customer to call his bluff. I can't complain; I do the same thing in my business.

Anyway, I looked at the used TC33D with backhoe, FEL and a nice set of bucket forks. 322 hours. Dealer came down from $17,500 to $16,300...which is probably a fabulous price...and I passed. Tractor looked more like 3000 houurs than 300 - not well maintained. Looked like it had been rode hard and put away wet. Salesman could not assure me warranty would be transferred - sounded like he knew it was rough and didn't want it under warranty - I may be reading more into that than he intended.

Anyway, I took another hard look at the TC18, and decided it was the right size for maintenance once our construciton is complete, and anything it can't do for the construction project, I'll hire out for a lot less than the cost to move up to a TC33D - which may not be able to handle all the jobs, anyway.

Dealer stuck with his price of 14,800, which was 13,600 for tractor and 12LA loader, 850 for 4' bush hog and $350 for 4' box blade. I insisted they had to sweeten the pot. I happened to mention that I had a real need for pallet forks of some kind to unload pallets from delivery trucks. Suddenly, he remembered an implement they had stocked in one of their other stores, but which had never sold. The General Manager was hanging around, and he said if I bought the TC18, he'd throw this gadget in.

It's a rear 3 point hitch mounted hydraulic forklift. It's similar to this desgin from Cadco:

I can't remember the brand, but the salesman looked it up, and it has a list price of $987+. The one they have will lift 36" above the height the 3 point hitch will lift, which should get me into the back of most semi trailers. The unit weighs about 500 pounds, and the TC18 has a rear liftt capacity of 1265, so that leaves me about 750 pound forklift capacity - about double what I'll ever need. Since the TC18 has a loader, if I experience weight problems, I can always scoop up a bucket of dirt for balance. I could run the hydraulics off a remote, but the dealer suggested I simply get a longish hydraulic hose and plug into one to the loader lines to run the forklift.

Anyway, the price is about 600 more than hazmat paid for his TC18, and I'm happy with the forklift attachment as the sweetener. They're running my credit now, and I'll find out tomorrow whether I'll get the 0% deal - no reason why I shouldn't.

"If anyone has reason to prevent this marriage, speak now, or forever hold your peace..." /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm sure we're going to live happily ever after.

 

[spencer200]

as long as the tc33 still has warranty left it is transferable weather the dealer wants to transfer it or not. The fee for this is 50.00

 

[hazmat]

Don,

With the forklift attachment thrown in, it sounds like you've got a fair deal. Especially if this guy's service is top notch (as you've stated).

Reading your post it sounds like your dealer is willing to deal -- knocked the price down on the used tractor, threw in the forklift attachment etc. When I bought mine, I came armed with prices off TBN. Said, guys have been buying them for $X. The dealer said he couldn't do that price. I said what can you do? He said he could knock off $300. I said deal. Being a rookie, I like that my dealer is local. His support had been excellant so far.

Be sure to post some pics. Tell us how that new 12LA loader works (it's specs are better than my 7106).

A word of caution. While the 3 point rating is 1265#, Be sure to have the loader on the front if you attempt to lift any serious amount of weight back there. The little tractor will do wheelies /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Reading your post it sounds like your dealer is willing to deal)</font>
Yes, just not in the traditional way. He spent a fair amount of time looking for something to throw into the deal to sweeten it. This forklift attachment is actually designed to lift hay bales, and he had stocked it in his rural store. There were no takers; it was just taking up room. His cost was probably ~$500. I suspect it might be a bit of a "dog", but I will make it work for my application.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Be sure to post some pics. Tell us how that new 12LA loader works (it's specs are better than my 7106).)</font>
Yes, that was one of my decision points. Lift is about 15" lower than the 7308, which I'm not crazy about, but capacity is only 115# less(750 vs. 865), which won't hurt me. He's supplying a HD bucket. Interesting that tractors both larger and smaller than the 33 have gotten the LA loaders, while everyone seems to be waiting for the 14LA.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A word of caution. While the 3 point rating is 1265#, Be sure to have the loader on the front if you attempt to lift any serious amount of weight back there. The little tractor will do wheelies /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif )</font>
Thanks for the advice - I figured that if I had any trouble with it, I could always keep a bucket of dirt handy to the unloading area to scoop up as a counterbalance.

Thanks to everyone for all the help/advice; I considered all of it. These forums are great. I'm starting my list of improvements already. The only mistake I think I may be making is to try to start out with the turf tires. When the weather is dry, I expect no problems, but until I get the drainage set up, I may slip around a little after it rains. One of the first things I going to add is a winch. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif We face different terrain problems here in South Central Florida than most of you.

Don