CK35 Burned Out It's Clutch AGAIN?!

[Flad]

Hi' I don't know how your shift sequence works, Do you have a button or switch on your FEL lever? On my loader I have a button that when pressed disengages the gearbox so I get full hydraulic power to lift a 5000lb + load if required, Could be a fault in the switch if you have one, some tractors also have a transmission disconnect switch for running PTO's either on the instrument panel or part of the F/N/R lever so it wont start in gear, Might be just a faulty switch, or switch adjustment , Chinese switches are crap mostly steel plated not copper or brass contacts I have had several fail burn out fall to pieces or just rust up. Could even be a lose connection broken wire as 385 hours is bad even for Chinese clutch but not un heard of especially if a generic part was used. Get a multimeter or some one who knows how to use one and go over your electrics.
Regard's
Flad

 

[kantuckid]

I've had this tractor maybe 4 years and used about 275 hrs since then. Never had this issue or do I know of such a switch. It is a clutch tractor and shuttle needs a clutch depression to go into forward, reverse, neutral, not dependent on hydraulics? The PTO switch has no affect on motion that I've seen and used it a bunch. It starts & runs fine & hydraulics work too- so hows that figure in? Chinese switches? I am a retired pro mechanic, tech school shop teacher who knows how to run electrical tests and more. In this thread are others with far more than 385 hours on the clutch. My 1st Kioti had a good clutch and older than this one but clutches do break which is maybe why they sell the parts? These are Korean tractors-do they have Chinese OE parts?-maybe, maybe not. I replaced this starter and a name brand not Chines but the one on it now is Ebay/Chinese and dirt cheap. Many US built vehicles have Chinese parts, it is what it is, a world wide economy...
Thanks but I'm taking it to an independent tractor guy tomorrow.
My own shops big door is now blocked by two large stacks of 2x6's on sticks, ~ 2,500 BF- with fans on them- that wont move until air dried.

 

[Flad]

Hi' I too am a retired Maintenance Fitter Machinist, Where I ran a Maintenance work shop hands on, of 15 Trades men including Plant Mechanics for 35years. Experience in sudden failures is more often some type of interlock be they switches linkages or leaks, oil water or air, a catastrophic or sudden clutch failure is rare, If you can drive a machine Bush hog, saw or any thing off your PTO shaft with power, It can't be your clutch unless its a two or three stage clutch, which I doubt your machine has, Do you have a repair manual?
Failing that Parts dealers generally have a parts manual, these often have exploded views of components and can give you some idea of how things work.
Korean Built machinery generally have a good reputation.

I hope your Tractor guy sorts it out.
Regard's
Flad

 

[kantuckid]

I agree as to your comments on the clutch and he has my tractor and the shop manual too. Seems to be related to the shuttle shift aspect internally IMO-what will be known soon enough.
The guy who has it now has done mostly JD tractors and equipment his entire career, he's 74 now.
FWIW, Kioti manuals are well written as done in NC, not Asia so no language messes and he has mine now along with the owner manuals for the FEL and tractor.

I have zero need to toot my horn as to where I've wrenched but it includes English sports cars and road racing in the 60's, Army helo's in the 60's, German- BMW/Audi cars, an 8,000 hour UAW apprenticeship (machinery and a lift truck fleet of 200 plus) and in the 80's & 90's I was a motor pool sgt in an Army guard floating bridge unit that also had mini tug boats with turbo diesels besides dozers, trucks, you name it. I rebuilt wrecked cars as a sideline along with over 50 years of moptorcycle maintenance & riding and a number of restorations.
Yes, I'm fairly greasy guy and my 5th career was in tech education-teacher counselor principal for most of my 27 yrs in schools.
I'll post here what I learn from him once he's got it broken down in a week or two.
Flad-are you in BC, CA or AU?

 

[Flad]

I wasn't blowing my horn, just letting you know I was not talking through my hat, How ever I like your creds , hardly any one these days has that amount of knowledge comes with curiosity, interest and age unfortunately by the time you get there as in my case the body fails, at 74 your man is doing well, I am flat out trying to tighten bolts without my air tools, Artheritis in the shoulders and hands limit my projects and I am just 70.

Yes it will be interesting to know the end result.

I am in the state of Victoria, Australia, and we just went back in to lockdown again this time 25 positive cases in our state, only one case 78km from us, It's the Indian Version direct from India they are repatriating Australian citizens
that have tested negative and been in quarantine for two weeks hear, just one of those tested positive a couple of days after leaving quarantine and spread it around, I hope they don't bring any more back, It's Crippling farming and industry, what's left of it.
Regard's
Flad.

 

[kantuckid]

Always interesting to talk across borders.
Things in Kentucky are headed towards normal-hopefully. Masking is seen much less and kids have been in real school this year in my area. In TN, AL & FL where our GK's are in school they have had very little virtual school. Our local kids go 4 days a week ( friday's are called a makeup day which is actually wasted as they don't do school work at all) which makes no sense to me as they are behind as it is.
Weird but I cannot get a Florida RV campsite next years winter- using the eleven month reservation window- but can get one anywhere in Arizona parks for the same period next years winter here. In my area we have zero cases in our county population of ~ 5k.

My tractor guy is an affable, sharp as a tack man who comes on like he's maybe ten yrs younger-similar to comments I'm lucky to get myself. His shop is down a private gravel road that winds through pastures for over a mile down to a creek crossing then there are tractors everywhere! He and I agree that somewhere inside it's related to the shuttle shift aspect which does still indicate the green neutral light and seem normal from lever motion and engine starts up fine along with hydraulics too. About a week or two and he'll have it down to information that matters. He and I did show & tell with our "old man repairs" his hand surgery scars vs mine and he asked me how my (both hands) CTS release surgery had held up from 20+ yrs ago.

Meantime my 6th grade grand daughter and I are making cutting & cheese boards for her to sell to city folks. I do the table saw, planer and bandsaw, she does patterns, transfers to wood and uses air sanders and hand sanding and finishing along with drill press for hanger holes. We did trivets, also from my shorts & scraps, back last winter and she sold them out for more than I'd give for one.
Stay tuned for the full story on my Kioti tractor. I may start a new thread as the subject lines off base here.

 

[kantuckid]

My Kioti clutch was in fact burned up- facings and rivets coming out, weak fingers, etc.. I'll accept that it was my fault-maybe- as I was pulling some seriously big logs on skid trails so some hard jerking to get things moving.
I have read comments here-in that say Kioti had a run of bad clutches but I have no idea which models were issues. It operates fine now after being down since 4-19-21. The 74 yr old lifetime pro JD tractor mechanic who replaced it likes to use all new parts and prefers friction discs with pads vs. circular type. We'll see how to does now at 365 hours after repair.

 

[Flad]

Hi" Glad you finally got it fixed, I very much doubt it was any thing you did to kill the clutch, for a start Riveted clutches have been redundant for many many years, Who would replace a bonded clutch plate with a riveted one these days ? assuming the original one was bonded, only a die hard **** restorer would bother or cheap very old stock, but most likely a cheap Chinese knock off replacement set given the weak fingers and loose rivets, it is possible but I doubt a genuine Kioti replacement part would be a riveted clutch plate.

Any way we are back in lock down as of yesterday that is the sixth time so far our state borders are closed as well as some suburbs closer to Melbourne, they are now using the army to enforce the lock downs in hot spots with 5k fines for travelling more than 5km from home, there are no cases within 100km from us but we are still in lock down, I have been trying to get some steel delivered but that's been canceled now twice first time for flooding now the lock down, Masks have all ways from the start been mandatory and now we have an app on our phones to scan a QR Code before we go in to any business or shop, or sign in some even ask for ID

 

[kantuckid]

It was the OE, original clutch that went out in the tractor-Kioti riveted style. What went in this time is a bonded pads style.
Sounds like some serious politicians down under. I doubt that would float well among my areas people. Here in rural areas we live often w/o crime, zoning, building codes/permits or much other interference beyond taxation. Masking is in sorting out stages some states while several leave it to the parents for school and mandated vaccinations have begun by a few employers-mostly healthcare related.
My states guv tends to follow "Joe" in all things covid as same affiliation.
I'm ggod to go everyday but stop early on hot, humid days and work slower. Both hips replaced, one shoulder had full tear, sewed and now has 4 titanium screws with cable wrapped around them, plus 3 stents, heart undamaged, CTS release surgery both hands ~ 20 years ago, osteo in shoulders, hands, knees and probably elsewhere? On my 7th or 8th left knee cortisone combo shot and half that knee is bone to bone so maybe a replacement soon by same doc as my hips. Meanwhile I have a 15 yr old helper who actually didn't know how to open a paint can this week. I said, well I gave you the opener which is in your pocket, maybe try that but had to demonstrate. He's dangerous too, tractor turne off, he walks over to the FEL lever and drops a load of slabs and a couple 4x6's on the ground-boom! I asked what he was doing, suggesting maybe it could cause an injury next time-he says he was trying to raise it higher... go figure on that one. His Dad is a FT logging contractor who told me he didn't allow him to run his lawn mower-maybe a tip, huh?

 

[ASEmaster]

I last posted in 2012 about this same issue so I just wanted to post again to warn future buyers of small Kioti tractors that my model stinks. Here's a synopsis: in 2012, my 2009 CK35 had 122 hours on it when it suddenly stopped moving. Turned out the clutch shredded itself but it was under warranty so it was a free repair job. Fast forward 8+ years later and my tractor now has a whopping 235 hours on it.

Clutch disc can rust to the flywheel and pressure plate sitting still. This can lead to a not good condition. Use it or lose it.

 

[fried1765]

Clutch disc can rust to the flywheel and pressure plate sitting still. This can lead to a not good condition. Use it or lose it.

Or.......just "block" the clutch with a block of wood.

 

[lilranch2001]

I would venture a guess that Kioti has provided a hook/ bracket on the clutch pedal to hold the clutch "down". I know my Bobcat has one

 

[Robin Veerman]

Well....that’s what the latch is for on my CK30. If the tractor is going to be parked for a long time I can push down the clutch pedal and latch it. Keeps the clutch plates apart Dutchy

 

[fried1765]

Well....that’s what the latch is for on my CK30. If the tractor is going to be parked for a long time I can push down the clutch pedal and latch it. Keeps the clutch plates apart Dutchy

Well....that’s what the latch is for on my CK30. If the tractor is going to be parked for a long time I can push down the clutch pedal and latch it. Keeps the clutch plates apart Dutchy

Some brands of tractors have that clutch latch, some do not.

 

[holeycow]

My Kioti has the latch. My tractor never sits long enough to worry about it, but the latch will be handy if it ever does.

 

[m1garand762]

I had purchased a 15ish year old at the time lk 3054 with 375 hours. This night is was delivered the clutch smoked out after 3 hours of use. I have had gear tractors for years it wasn’t me. The dealer I purchased it from refused to warrant it and told me it was a sub3 k job. I took it an hour away and that dealer did the job for sub 2k and said it still had shipping blocks in it and that’s what caused it to fail. I purchased it from the original selling dealer moral of the story have someone else look at it

 

[Flad]

Hi' Being a work shop Manager, now retired, I have had similar problems with shipping packing ,blocks , spacers, and end caps being left in assemblies often causing major down time with serious damage to other components, the problem was the use of un trained labor hire mechanics/fitters, the company used to reduce the costs of employing and training their own labor.
I had, in an in your face position, in my office for upper management to see as they came in to my office when this sort of thing repeatedly happened a sticker with these words on it SKILLED LABOR ISN'T CHEAP, CHEAP LABOR ISN'T SKILLED. all I did was to point to the sticker and hand them the reports , we went from 26 full time fitter/mechanics/ welders/ to 5 over 20 years on a 24/7, 35 acre chemical plant that is now no more.

 

[bmacd11]

Splitting a tractor is not that hard to do (I have done a few) but I have two Nuffields and being able to re-clutch without splitting it makes it ALMOST nice! I'd have a machinist check the alignment of the clutch mainshaft with the bell housing to be sure it is completely perpendicular.

Hi' Just to remind you all that if a clutch starts to slip heat is generated and generally takes a while for it to fail completely, that heat not only burns the clutch plate but also glazes the surface of both the fly wheel and pressure plate its a really dumb idea just to replace the clutch plate without having the fly wheel and pressure plate re surfaced especially so with two or three stage clutches, glazing also hardens and can put minute almost invisible stress cracks in both the fly wheel and pressure plate even a brand new clutch plate will slip on a glazed and hardened surface that can even be warped, some thing you just cant pick up buy eye alone.

Given the expense time and effort to split a tractor to save a couple of extra dollars on NOT resurfacing the fly wheel or pressure plate or checking the spring pressures of the pressure plate is just insanity you have to take the pressure plate off any way so what's six more bolts to remove the fly wheel and have it checked???

I have refused a few clutch jobs because of the owners that only want the clutch plate replaced, the same goes for tractor brakes if the drums or discs are glazed new shoes or pads won't fix it for very long if at all.

Regard's

I agree with you Cameron. I believe a nice clean flywheel / pressure plate has to help; it sure did on my truck. I do have a question for you. Does resurfacing the two surfaces mentioned have any affect on the standard settings that one uses to set up the clutch? I have a '64 135 with live PTO / dual clutch and I'm just about to put the tractor back together. Should I do anything different than factory settings? In my research, I've discovered that most people set the secondary clutch adjustment somewhere between .065 to .080 instead of the book value of .090. I don't think resurfacing will affect the secondary clutch anyway. What about the finger setting. Most people set them somewhere between two threads showing and 49 mm. Does the resurfacing affect this setting? Any recommendation?