Choice: food or solar fields

[Grumpycat]

No restrictions in your subdivision?

”No livestock” is about it. I can install all the solar I want without asking permission of any but the utility company if I wish to sell power to them.

At the house I am building there are even less restrictions. The only permit/inspection is for septic tank. There, the utility company requires I pay for their remote disconnect if I install PV or generator. They fear I might generate enough power to shock a lineman during an outage if they do not have a disconnect.

Said with the disconnect I was free to provide all the power I wanted via grid-tie. But if I wanted to be paid for it I had to contract with TVA. The local would let me inject on their grid, but would not pay anything for it.

 

[Grumpycat]

The essence of zoning is to protect a homeowner/landholder from a person or persons erecting or using lands in a non conforming way. Without zoning, you could have a 300 grand home with a trailer next door and that destroys the value of the 300K place. zoning is all about protecting the value of property and housing.

But that is not what is being practiced in the cited example. No one is building a chicken house next to a subdivision. Not even building a bird-killing noisy wind turbine. Not even growing water-sucking fertilizer-runoff and pesticide-runoff corn. Just a bunch of glass panels angled at the sky. Something commonly celebrated when built next to mere “300 grand homes”.

 

[MossRoad]

13,000 acres of good farm ground out of commission.

Israeli company building largest solar project in the US in northern Indiana

(The Center Square) – A company based in ****** has leased 13,000 acres of farmland in two northern Indiana counties with plans to build the largest solar farm in the

www.thecentersquare.com

Again, the land is being leased, not sold, by the landowners. It is no different than a land owner leasing the land out for crops to someone else, other than they're pulling electricity off of the acreage VS corn or beans. People can do with their land whatever they please. That's been the going theme here on TBN for decades. Now that the land isn't being used for something one doesn't approve of, they want to have a say in it.

 

[MossRoad]

Why should a zoning authority have any say over how the owner uses the land?

Ag zoned land isn't light industrial. It has to do with farm land preservation in Indiana.

Also, did you read about the conflicts of interest in that case? That's typical of how things happen in this part of the country, my county as well. It's almost expected.

 

[lman]

Again, the land is being leased, not sold, by the landowners. It is no different than a land owner leasing the land out for crops to someone else, other than they're pulling electricity off of the acreage VS corn or beans. People can do with their land whatever they please. That's been the going theme here on TBN for decades. Now that the land isn't being used for something one doesn't approve of, they want to have a say in it.

Did I say they couldn't do as they pleased? I don't know where you got that?

 

[Hay Dude]

In a time where supermarket shelves are getting more and more empty, why we would want to take more farms out of commission for marginally effective solar panels?
We are reducing the food supply by reducing farm acreage while taking viable power plants off line? We now import much more fresh food than we used to.

In the meantime, reducing food supply makes food cost a LOT more.
On top of that, we have more expensive electricity and natural gas costs for our homes and on top of that, TRIPLE to cost of gas/diesel? And on top of THAT, parts scarcities for cars/trucks?

How much more can we take? Maybe it’s time to explore taking a break from beating up the taxpayer a bit?

 

[jyoutz]

In a time where supermarket shelves are getting more and more empty, why we would want to take more farms out of commission for marginally effective solar panels?
We are reducing the food supply by reducing farm acreage while taking viable power plants off line? We now import much more fresh food than we used to.

In the meantime, reducing food supply makes food cost a LOT more.
On top of that, we have more expensive electricity and natural gas costs for our homes and on top of that, TRIPLE to cost of gas/diesel? And on top of THAT, parts scarcities for cars/trucks?

How much more can we take? Maybe it’s time to explore taking a break from beating up the taxpayer a bit?

You should take a look at a USDA agricultural production annual report. Hundreds of thousands of acres of grain and legumes are grown annually for the export market and biofuels. This country produces far more food than we consume. I don’t like seeing farmlands converted to industrial or residential uses either, but not out of fear of famine. That is simply not likely.

 

[Hay Dude]

You should take a look at a USDA agricultural production annual report. Hundreds of thousands of acres of grain and legumes are grown annually for the export market and biofuels. This country produces far more food than we consume. I don’t like seeing farmlands converted to industrial or residential uses either, but not out of fear of famine. That is simply not likely.

Not grain or legumes. Take a look at the yearly decline in fresh vegetables & fruits, not grains, grown in this country.
It will shock you when you see how much that used to be grown in Florida and Kalifornia is now imported from Mexico.

This country is circling the drain if not one foot in the drain. We need to change course immediately and start making/growing/mining & drilling here again and NOW

 

[5030]

So are you suggesting that exports and fuel production from grains would continue if there was a food shortage in this country?

I suggest nothing. I'm not making the decisions, good or bad, I'm like you, just a small cog.

 

[5030]

This country is circling the drain if not one foot in the drain. We need to change course immediately and start making/growing/mining & drilling here again and NOW

...and when that drain isn't flowing well, the 'Big Guy' is right there with his plunger....

E-gas and biodiesel have to be 2 of the worst products to ever be foisted on the American consumer.

Far as vegetable production is concerned, this are I live in is mostly truck farms and sauce tomato production.

 

[kenmbz]

Florida and PA got covered in houses and strip malls.
California never had the water to cover the crops that the politicians brought there. Never made sense to grow orange in CA while Florida grew condos.

 

[jyoutz]

...and when that drain isn't flowing well, the 'Big Guy' is right there with his plunger....

E-gas and biodiesel have to be 2 of the worst products to ever be foisted on the American consumer.

Far as vegetable production is concerned, this are I live in is mostly truck farms and sauce tomato production.

I

Not grain or legumes. Take a look at the yearly decline in fresh vegetables & fruits, not grains, grown in this country.
It will shock you when you see how much that used to be grown in Florida and Kalifornia is now imported from Mexico.

This country is circling the drain if not one foot in the drain. We need to change course immediately and start making/growing/mining & drilling here again and NOW

We are drilling for petroleum products at a record pace. Stop stating contrary information.

U.S. crude oil production forecast to rise in 2022 and 2023 to record-high levels - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

 

[jyoutz]

Not grain or legumes. Take a look at the yearly decline in fresh vegetables & fruits, not grains, grown in this country.
It will shock you when you see how much that used to be grown in Florida and Kalifornia is now imported from Mexico.

This country is circling the drain if not one foot in the drain. We need to change course immediately and start making/growing/mining & drilling here again and NOW

Fruits and vegetables are mostly produced in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. And some other southern states, but primarily California. Yes some production occurs in northern states also, but most are from the locations I listed. The largest producers are in areas that have been experiencing severe drought conditions for the past several years and increasing production isn’t going to happen until wet years replenish reservoirs and streams. So we should consider ourselves fortunate that importing these products from Mexico is economically feasible.

 

[MossRoad]

Where's my avocado toast?

 

[kenmbz]

All the states- California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas were never wet states to start with, especially California.
Florida up to Georgia were perfect. Where do Peaches, sugar cane and oranges come from today? Certainly not the east coast in any volume.

 

[jyoutz]

All the states- California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas were never wet states to start with, especially California.
Florida up to Georgia were perfect. Where do Peaches, sugar cane and oranges come from today? Certainly not the east coast in any volume.

My understanding is that Florida oranges are mainly produced for juice and most whole citrus fruits are from CA and TX. Arizona used to produce a lot, but those fields were lost to urban development. There are huge areas of sugar cane produced in Louisiana and Florida and I’m sure elsewhere. I know CA produces a lot of peaches and tree fruits, and I assume GA still does. Most that we get where I live come from CA. Interestingly enough, my state is frequently the number one producer of pecans, even though some years the number 1 and 2 spots are traded between NM and GA.

 

[MossRoad]

While it might seem that there's a lot of sugar grown in the Florida, total U.S. sugar cane production is small potatoes.

Who grows sugar cane?

Who eats the most sugar?

 

[jyoutz]

While it might seem that there's a lot of sugar grown in the Florida, total U.S. sugar cane production is small potatoes.

Who grows sugar cane?

View attachment 746306

Who eats the most sugar?

View attachment 746307

Also, a lot of sugar is produced from beets in addition to cane.

 

[kenmbz]

From January SunTimes
If the estimate holds true, Florida would have smallest orange crop since the 1944-1945 season, when the state produced 42.3 million boxes, and California would surpass it in orange production for the first time in recent years.
From USDA:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/Florida/Publications/Citrus/Brochure/1011broc.pdf

Florida used to produce almost all of the oranges and grapefruits for the US when I was a kid. Cali had Valencia (Juice)as majority crop but switched to Naval in the 70's.

Florida peaked around 1980 with over 200 Million boxes, and that coresponds with the population growth spurt from then til today. This year 42Million.............

 

[jyoutz]

From January SunTimes
If the estimate holds true, Florida would have smallest orange crop since the 1944-1945 season, when the state produced 42.3 million boxes, and California would surpass it in orange production for the first time in recent years.
From USDA:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/Florida/Publications/Citrus/Brochure/1011broc.pdf

Florida used to produce almost all of the oranges and grapefruits for the US when I was a kid. Cali had Valencia (Juice)as majority crop but switched to Naval in the 70's.

Florida peaked around 1980 with over 200 Million boxes, and that coresponds with the population growth spurt from then til today. This year 42Million.............

Lots of Florida groves lost to urban development?