check valve or not?!?

[TC33DRon]

Just installed rear NH remote kit to use for top link.
My neighbor welded the cylinder for me, good welder.
Now, check valve or not. Read a couple year old thread about it. When i tried access the old link to purchase a cylinder check valve it failed. Check-valves i found were Big Bucks..
Anybody know were to purchase checkvalves at a reasonable price?
I would think the more solid the top link, the better the feel for working and no pressure on other system parts would be the way to go???
Check valve ! Yes % No%

Thanks Ron

 

[MadReferee]

Anybody know were to purchase checkvalves at a reasonable price?

Nope, unless you buy one already on a cylinder from CCM, assuming they are back in stock.

Check valves are used to prevent cylinder drift due to shcok loads and leaky cylinders. Some cylinders leak down more than others. Every cylinder will eventually leakdown.

I would think the more solid the top link, the better the feel for working and no pressure on other system parts would be the way to go???

Not sure what you mean here. You get your best "feel" when you can feather the remote lever. You can use 1/4" work port hoses or a restrictor to accomplish this.

There have been literally dozens of posts discussing this subject in just the past year alone. The general consensus is that cylinders with check valves are the way to go when they are available.

 

[schmism]

so ive been reserching the top n tilt myself... (as im about to have 2 rear remotes on my TC33)

and i cant understand why the off the shelf top cylinder is like $300 when it seems i can get a double eye cylinder and check valve for less than $100.

so like this for the check valve?
Surplus Center Item Detail

and this for a cylinder?
Surplus Center Item Detail

(Granted i guessed at the cyliner but only need to veryfy what my max/min dimentions are on my current top link)

 

[MadReferee]

so ive been reserching the top n tilt myself... (as im about to have 2 rear remotes on my TC33)

and i cant understand why the off the shelf top cylinder is like $300 when it seems i can get a double eye cylinder and check valve for less than $100.

so like this for the check valve?
Surplus Center Item Detail

and this for a cylinder?
Surplus Center Item Detail

(Granted i guessed at the cyliner but only need to veryfy what my max/min dimentions are on my current top link)

That check valve you pointed to is not a pilot operated check valve. It is simple a one way check valve where fluid always flows in one direction and never in the other. It won't work for a HTL application.

Simply put, a pilot operated check valve requires a certain cracking/pilot pressure to be applied in order for the valve to open in that direction. If no pressure is applied the valve stays locked in both directions. A double pilot operated check valve handles both sides of a double acting cylinder. These are sometimes called lock valves.

 

[schmism]

so instead you mean this $75 version

Surplus Center Item Detail

and the diff between the $75 version and this "load holding valve" for half the price is what?

Surplus Center Item Detail

 

[MadReferee]

so instead you mean this $75 version

Surplus Center Item Detail

and the diff between the $75 version and this "load holding valve" for half the price is what?

Surplus Center Item Detail

The first one will probably work. You ideally want to plumb it with hard lines right on the cylinder. I 'm not sure what the cracking pressure is on that valve but I remember someone saying that it will work.

The second is not a double pilot check valve and it's cracking pressure is only 30 psi. It should be around 500 psi. In order for this to work you would need 2 of them, one for each port. The relief portion is not necessary unless it would be used for say, a loader where breakout pressure is being applied. My dozer has pressure reliefs (built into the valve though) for each port on the loader.

 

[jinman]

so instead you mean this $75 version

Surplus Center Item Detail

and the diff between the $75 version and this "load holding valve" for half the price is what?

Surplus Center Item Detail

I believe the first locking valve will work (I'd have to see the schematic diagram). The problem is you would be "using a railroad car to haul a handfull of sand" if I can use that analogy. This valve is 5" long and weighs 9 lb with 1/2" ports. Where are you gonna hang that "beast" on your cylinder? By the time you get it plugged in, you'll have a rat's nest of plumbing, adapters, and a general kludge.

The cylinders Mad likes and I like from CCM have a tiny little check valve about the size of a cell phone and they come plumbed with rigid tubing to the cylinder. All you have to do is hook 1/4" hoses to them and you have a very clean installation that has far less chance of getting snagged on brush or something else attached to your 3PH.

If you don't mount the DPOCV on the cylinder you will lose some of your functionality because the flexible hoses will slightly balloon. Since CCM is the only source we know of for the ideal toplinks, you can buy a good quality cylinder, keep your hose length to minimum, use 1/4" hose, and install a 0.031" orifice. It won't be the very best, but it's a heck of a lot better than having no adjustment at all.

The second valve is not compatible at all in my opinion, because it is a checkvalve for a single flow direction.

 

[jinman]

Mad, you and I are gonna have to quit saying the same thing. People will talk...

 

[MadReferee]

I hear ya Jim, I hear ya. But it'll be our little secret.

 

[gabby]

I have a homemade tilt cylinder with no check valve on my 4520 and it works fine.
gabby

 

[3RRL]

The first one will probably work. You ideally want to plumb it with hard lines right on the cylinder. I 'm not sure what the cracking pressure is on that valve but I remember someone saying that it will work.

Mad, the cracking pressure on that DPOCV is 4:1 ratio. So if it is a 3,000psi system, it cracks at 750psi. I bought it to try it out but Jim is right...they are BIG suckers! They are like 4X as big as the CCM toplink cylinder I have. Now I'll have the rear ballast I wanted.
I'll let you know when I have everything together and operating whether they work good or not.

Schmism, that is the only one that will work of all that you displayed. For the toplink, I'd definitely get the CCM one after seeing how huge these dudes are. Mine are going on big side link cylinders and I have room to hide them on my 55hp Kama.

 

[schmism]

Ya im not giving up yet. Im convinced i can figure out what CCM is useing.

If i had to take a wild stab at it, they are taking a reg $8 check valve and doing some addtional machineing to it.

 

[MadReferee]

Ya im not giving up yet. Im convinced i can figure out what CCM is useing.

If i had to take a wild stab at it, they are taking a reg $8 check valve and doing some addtional machineing to it.

Good luck. You obviously know little about hydraulic valves and how things like DPOCV's work. If and when you do your homework and start to understand how these things operate I am sure your tune will change. Many of us have been there and done that and we have offered some valid alternatives and suggestions. If you choose to ignore them, well, then I again wish you good luck.

BTW, as we have posted many times previously, CCM is using a DPOCV that is made in europe especially for this purpose. The valve in the configuration that they use is not available here in the USA and their cylinders and DPOCV's are made and assembled in europe and shipped over here.

 

[schmism]

Good luck. You obviously know little about hydraulic valves and how things like DPOCV's work. If and when you do your homework and start to understand how these things operate

Your correct my previous work experience has not led me to have to deal with hydraulics.

But then again not all of us are Mechanical engineers with the mechanical knowhow and ablity to reverse engineer and or "figure it out".

I Love a challange and have a full machine shop at my desposal, with ProE for the design side

Im not just your avg farmer dude

 

[SPYDERLK]

I have a homemade tilt cylinder with no check valve on my 4520 and it works fine.
gabby

From what Im seeing here and on other threads, just the standard tractor valving is usually good enuf - -even for a long term position hold. It seems this would absolutely be true for situations where you were making frequent adjustments. It is also attractive to build your own since you can get more close to your exact needs. So, Schmism, from these things considered I think when I do this I will chose the exact length I want and add small manual high pressure ball valves. I figure when I need a long term stable position I can manually close the valves. It seems to me that this would be safer too - especially if 2 people were working together. The ball valves give you a site cue as to the system status. It wont be changed accidently by just hitting a tractor contol.
Larry

 

[gabby]

From what Im seeing here and on other threads, just the standard tractor valving is usually good enuf - -even for a long term position hold. It seems this would absolutely be true for situations where you were making frequent adjustments. It is also attractive to build your own since you can get more close to your exact needs. So, Schmism, from these things considered I think when I do this I will chose the exact length I want and add small manual high pressure ball valves. I figure when I need a long term stable position I can manually close the valves. It seems to me that this would be safer too - especially if 2 people were working together. The ball valves give you a site cue as to the system status. It wont be changed accidently by just hitting a tractor contol.
Larry

I think the manual valves are overkill. Chances are, if you have leakage it will be inside the cylinder where the extra valves won't help. I'd just k.i.s.s it.
gabby