Changed fuel injection pump oil and now Ford 1700 will only idle

[1980 F1500]

You pointed the OP in the right direction to get his running again. Well done. And, I forgot to thank you for your help with mine. So I'm saying it now. A big thanks for your many contributions and help.

 

[JC-jetro]

You pointed the OP in the right direction to get his running again. Well done. And, I forgot to thank you for your help with mine. So I'm saying it now. A big thanks for your many contributions and help.

You are quite welcome. A lot of people come and ask and you never hear from there. It is not that you are looking for a "thank" but a feed back. it is just common courtesy and not all feel obligated.

JC,

 

[pclausen]

Yeah, awesome support JC!

You even offered up other suggestions before I was able to respond to your first one (or was that your third one, I loose count )

 

[JC-jetro]

Yeah, awesome support JC!

You even offered up other suggestions before I was able to respond to your first one (or was that your third one, I loose count )

You are welcome. Solving a puzzle does have it's own rewards.

JC,

 

[Kent B]

The same thing happened to me after I drained the oil from the injector pump. I figured that I had air in the line so I tried bleeding by the book for a few days but no dice.

Solution for me: Removed engine oil filter. Removed cover / plate on injector pump. Made sure that the "spring" (sits on a guide rod) was lined up with the (rack) aka item #72 in parts diagram. Replaced oil filter and added oil back to injector pump.
She scared me when she fired up because I had it set on "rabbit" mode for bleeding purposes.

It doesn't even look like there is much to hold that spring in position except for the guide rod so it would be very easy to put it back wrong.
It is a very weak and flimsy spring. Hard to believe that it makes that much difference but it did.

P.S.: I don't remember if your 1700 oil filter is in the same place as my 1710 but if it is then it is a whole lot easier to remove the cover plate if you take off the oil filter. I did not drain the engine oil first. The only oil that came out was from inside the filter.
My tractor was sitting on a slight incline.

 

[JC-jetro]

The only thing I would add to Kent B is that is of utmost importance to put a witness mark on injector pump base and the timing cover so the same injector timing will be duplicated. The procedure to make sure injector fires at the right time is not that easy and might be finicky. I have read the procedure and though, I just go ahead and mark the timing while all is working well.

JC,

 

[Kent B]

One thing that I noticed while doing this procedure is that engine oil does get slung into the injector pump reservoir during operation. The reason I came up with this theory is that even though I had previously drained and replaced my engine oil there was still some residual (dirty oil) that got left behind. After running the engine for only a few minutes that dirty oil mixed with the clean oil and ended up in the injector pump where I had already drained and replaced it with fresh clean oil.
I will probably do another oil change soon just to make me feel better.

 

[JC-jetro]

One thing that I noticed while doing this procedure is that engine oil does get slung into the injector pump reservoir during operation. The reason I came up with this theory is that even though I had previously drained and replaced my engine oil there was still some residual (dirty oil) that got left behind. After running the engine for only a few minutes that dirty oil mixed with the clean oil and ended up in the injector pump where I had already drained and replaced it with fresh clean oil.
I will probably do another oil change soon just to make me feel better.

Kent,

There is no physical connection between (cross connection) between crankcase or injector pump at all in 1700 0r 1000 series Shibaura. The only possible leakage can be from injector pump main shaft seal in to timing cover and then in to crankcase and never the other way around. next time blow some air from the dill connection and you'll see another spoon or of dirty oil coming out. That little bit of old oil and new 2 oz make the new oil as dirty as the old in nothing flat.

JC,

 

[Kent B]

Kent,

There is no physical connection between (cross connection) between crankcase or injector pump at all in 1700 0r 1000 series Shibaura. The only possible leakage can be from injector pump main shaft seal in to timing cover and then in to crankcase and never the other way around. next time blow some air from the dill connection and you'll see another spoon or of dirty oil coming out. That little bit of old oil and new 2 oz make the new oil as dirty as the old in nothing flat.

JC,

Thanks for the info.
I wish I had drain and level holes in the Injector pump but no such luck.

 

[ajcollins]

JC, I am brand new to this forum. I just bought a ford 1700 (really like it). I have read many of your helpful post. I am having the same problem as Pclausen was having with the injector pump oil change and now it only will idle. I followed the train of "how to fix". Unfortunately this did not fix mine. I was looking to see if you had any other suggestions. I know this is an old posting and don't even know if you are still an active member, I thought I would give it a shot. The only thing I have not done is take one of the lines off that runs from the injector pump to the actual engine head (the metal tubings - 2 of them). I got one off but not the other one yet, could there be an "air bubble" in there that is causing the problem. Thank you in advance for any advice.
AC

 

[jones6780]

AJ you don't need to remove the lines, just loosen the nut at the injector to bleed air. Do you have a drain or did you remove the back cover? Did you check the spring on the pump cover for correct install? Did you have gravity fuel flow?

 

[ajcollins]

AJ you don't need to remove the lines, just loosen the nut at the injector to bleed air. Do you have a drain or did you remove the back cover? Did you check the spring on the pump cover for correct install? Did you have gravity fuel flow?

No drain on mine, I had to remove the back cover. I made sure the spring is seated properly. I do have good fuel flow. I loosened the two nuts on the injectors on top of the fuel pump and have fuel flow through them. I have not taken one of the two off that are on top of the cylinder head to bleed it (don't know if it is needed). I thought I would take these two lines off (the metal, smaller lines) and blow them out--------I'm hoping there is trash in one and that's my problem. thank you for the quick response. I am trying to get smarter. any other suggestions are welcome. I'm just frustrated because it was running fine before I changes the oil and fuel pump oil (could the oil change make a difference-----I would not think, but ?

 

[JC-jetro]

Aj,

In think by draining the oil from back cover you might have moved the spring or caused something for the governor assembly not to work properly. I'd make sure governor is not binding in any form. That's what regulate flow of fuel and Engine speed at any given throttle position.

JC,

 

[ajcollins]

I'll look at the governor tonight/thur. and see if that's the problem. I am pretty sure I aligned the spring correctly on the pin that moves inside the pump when the throttle is activated. I think I have tried just about everything else. thank you!

 

[JC-jetro]

I'll look at the governor tonight/thur. and see if that's the problem. I am pretty sure I aligned the spring correctly on the pin that moves inside the pump when the throttle is activated. I think I have tried just about everything else. thank you!

Don't despair, It is eiither governor or you still have some air bubble in the injection line. Injection pump is a reciprocating positive displacement pump. the pump try to compress small amount of Liq (not compressible) thru the discharge line. if there is air bubble there it'll keep pulsating git back and forth without or very little fuel delivery. By the way did you adjust the throttle any? does it move freely all the way back and forth? what happens when you push the throttle high while the tractor is idling?

JC,

 

[jones6780]

You don't need to loosen the lines at the pump, that could introduce air in the line. Only loosen at the injector to bleed. I would not think you have trash in the lines if you have a good filter. Double check the spring on the cover is installed correctly.

 

[ajcollins]

You don't need to loosen the lines at the pump, that could introduce air in the line. Only loosen at the injector to bleed. I would not think you have trash in the lines if you have a good filter. Double check the spring on the cover is installed correctly.

ugh, I thought before I check the governor, I would make sure all air is out of "all" lines. I loosened the two nuts at the very top that connect to the pistons on the actual engine head (please forgive my terminology if it's wrong). while doing this the two pistons must have moved and created a foaming of gas at the base of them while trying to crank. With all the rust build up-------I got one off and cleaned and replaced, no leak now. the other is locked in and I can not turn it either way to tighten or loosen (have to get it off somehow). after I fix this "new" problem I will check the governor............I sure hope that is the problem. My spring is seated correctly. My hand throttle works properly, I can have it wide open or just barely past the "kill" position and same result. It will crank but just barely continue to turn over, like it is going to cut off at any moment. but it does not. the old saying keeps coming up................if it ain't broke, don't fix it:laughing: I bought it in great shape, doing the preventative maintenance was where I went wrong:confused2:

 

[ajcollins]

JC and jones6780,

I personally want to thank you both for helping me and giving suggestion. I took the "injectors" out (not pistons - you all are smart, I am not Ha/ha). I cleaned out all the gummed up diesel on the female threads on the head, got my injectors back in. I drained the fuel pump, again. I made sure the weights were working properly (they may have been hung up not sure, moved pretty good from what I could tell). Replaced my plate and this time I only added 1oz. of oil (I know this is not the recommended 2oz, but I wanted the see if I maybe was adding too much).
Last night I went back in the archives and read about 5 pages of conflicting theories of too much too little oil in the pump and too much making the engine not get up in the rpms. I fired her up and she like she was when I got her. I will probably go back and add a little more to the pump as I don't want to buy a new one (I have seen the prices quoted, ouch).
anyway thank you both for the help, very much appreciated. I also enjoyed reading all the past postings on "our" 1700s, good reading and good knowledge to have.

 

[JC-jetro]

Cool Success as last:thumbsup: About the oil in the injector pump. Mine turned out to be exactly 2 oz. Again, there is a fill point on top, a drain hole and a level point. You can drain completely, close drain, open level hole and fill from top. as soon as oil about the escape from the level point you got enough oil. Now imagine old oil vs new cold, cold oil and warm oil. That effects, viscosity , pour ability (if there is a term like such, ha ha) and clinging effect. i had to take a air nozzle and shoot a bit air from the top and that afforded me getting another extra tea spoon of old oil. The oil the pump is moved by splashing and the governor weights do exactly that. I, for myself would not want to toast my high $$$ injector so want to have enough oil in there. Too much is bad as the oil expansion due to heat can certainly damage things.

JC,

JC and jones6780,

I personally want to thank you both for helping me and giving suggestion. I took the "injectors" out (not pistons - you all are smart, I am not Ha/ha). I cleaned out all the gummed up diesel on the female threads on the head, got my injectors back in. I drained the fuel pump, again. I made sure the weights were working properly (they may have been hung up not sure, moved pretty good from what I could tell). Replaced my plate and this time I only added 1oz. of oil (I know this is not the recommended 2oz, but I wanted the see if I maybe was adding too much).
Last night I went back in the archives and read about 5 pages of conflicting theories of too much too little oil in the pump and too much making the engine not get up in the rpms. I fired her up and she like she was when I got her. I will probably go back and add a little more to the pump as I don't want to buy a new one (I have seen the prices quoted, ouch).
anyway thank you both for the help, very much appreciated. I also enjoyed reading all the past postings on "our" 1700s, good reading and good knowledge to have.

 

[ajcollins]

understood, I have one of those pumps without the level and drain screws in it. kinda hard to tell exactly how much to have in it, will add some more to be on the safe side (if it goes back to bad idle I can always take a little out). do you still recommend adding the "power service" additive to your fuel to account for the low sulfur content in today's diesel? I can't find off road diesel anywhere. I still need to replace coolant as well, I see many different recommendations, do you have a go to? I know you have had your 1700 for awhile. thanks