Centering a front end loader

[blehmann]

I've had a Ford/New Holland 3930 for a couple of weeks now. It came with a Koyker 210 loader. Before I bought it, I noticed that the lifting arms were out of alignment with the sub-frame. There is a gap of about two inches between the rub rail on the left arm and the sub-frame and only about a half inch on the right. Nothing is bent, in fact the loader doesn't show much use at all. There are two 7/8" bolts that draw and lock the pins that hold the working assembly into the rear pocket of sub-frame. I assumed that it was just a matter of loosening one side and tightening the other to shift the loader to center. Not so. Now I'm wondering if perhaps the right lift cylinder is extended slightly more than the left cylinder. Before I go to the effort and mess of trying to sync the cylinders, maybe to no avail, I figured that I would put the problem up for discussion and ideas. Google has been no help. The Koyker mounting instructions don't cover any alignment issues either.

 

[nyone]

Typicaly cylinders have the same port outlet on the loader valve so there alreaty "synchronized".

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

It's a whole lot easier to say that's the way it was when I got it.

 

[Fladogman]

Is the bucket level from the ground?

 

[WinterDeere]

Retract the cylinders fully, and measure pin to pin length on each side. Do they match?

 

[5030]

Lots of thread on here detailing the procedure. Use the search function, it's your friend.

 

[blehmann]

I got nothing using the search function. In fact, I haven't gotten anything other than "no results" for the past several searches.
The bucket seems to be level in use, just shifted to one side a little. It's like the right loader arm needs to seat another quarter to a half inch deeper into the back support pocket. I just went out and looked at the pockets. Both sides appear to be seated equally and both front pins are pressed hard against the half-moon stops. It is what it is. Something is off somewhere, but it apparently is in welded parts. I'll keep looking at it and pondering the situation.

 

[Fladogman]

As long as the bucket is level to the ground you can probably rule out the cross arm being bent, so I'd look at where it bolts to the tractor. Might be able to adjust something there

 

[blehmann]

Retract the cylinders fully, and measure pin to pin length on each side. Do they match?

I don't think that I can fully retract the cylinders while they are mounted. I think that I can get the same information by lifting the bucket off the ground and then measuring. If I get a longer measurement on the right side, that could explain why the top part of the loader isn't centered. If there isn't as much force pushing on the left side, the frame might torque to the left slightly. It's 106 out there at the moment. I might measure it later this evening or in the morning when the sun isn't so hot. As nyone said, the cylinders share the same port, so they should be in sync. If they were bled properly, they should be very close on the measurement.

 

[5030]

yes you can and that applies to full extension as well You just hold the joystick against the stop for 30 seconds and repeat it, full extention, full retraction a few time and the cylinders will fill entirely if you have an air pocket. If not the loader arms or the SSQA mount (if you have one) is tweaked and that will involve some cutting, rewelding and measuring.

 

[sd455dan]

That is basically the newer version of what's on my tractor a Koyker K2

I would likely leave it if the bucket is level with the tires aired up evenly.
The cross brace is substantial on these koykers hard to bend. It sounds like your issue is with being slightly displaced to the left or right of the tractors center line. ?.

With my tractor that would be near impossible unless they mis welded at the factory since mine has a under center bell housing mount , this plus the forward running supports from the rear axle provide a secure alignment. Maybe you have side to side play adjustment ? There is clearance in the pockets so that remounting the loader has some room when driving up. L Try loosening the 2 large bolts (Both at the same time and there should be some side to side clearance that could be adjusted, also in the upper pivot pins of the main forward arms.
Good Luck imo they are a well built
and strong FEL.
As an example I successfully lifted 2 stacked pallets of energy pellets (over 83 40 lb bags plus the 2 pallets) and drove it all up onto my tilt bed trailer so it lifted over 3500lb about 48 inches high with no problem.

Not knowing the history it is possible something got bent but it would take some real force imo.

Pics would Help and Congrats on a Ford 3930 a strong long Lived beast

ps. I would also check the Koyker pivot Pins (Actually HD Carriage bolts) - over the years I wore a couple and also have snapped some. which could affect alignment. I also added some washer shims on mine to take out some extra side to side play.

 

[blehmann]

I went out and ran the loader to both stops and held it a couple of times. Then lowered the bucket to about six inches off the ground and measured as best I could. The hydraulic cylinder pins are actually bolts. Measuring from outside to outside, the left side is maybe a sixteenth of an inch shorter. Not enough in my opinion to cause the shift to the left. On a whim, I'm going to loosen the four bolts holding the mounting frame to the front of the tractor just to see if something shifts. While I had the tape measure out, I measured the gaps on the left and right. The left is 1 1/2", the right is 1/2"

 

[sd455dan]

Those pics help, Yes not really pins but bolts .
but how about some from more of a Macro view from say 10 feet directly in front with the FEL up and then with the bucket just off of the ground in a level area. Thanks

ps. There is something different in those front guides compared to mine.
We also added a Protector for the muffler after the second time it got ripped off by branches.

 

[blehmann]

I managed to get some adjustment by loosening the lock bolts on the pins, backing out of the loader by about half an inch, then moving the hook on the front left side of the top rail about a quarter inch closer to the rear of the tractor. My thought was that it would seat before the right hand hook, giving me a gap to close by tensioning the lock bolt on the right hand pin first. It took a couple of tries, and experimenting with the curl on the bucket and whether or not the tractor was able to roll or the brakes were locked, but I finally got the top frame to shift over nearly half an inch. I tightened the right side locking bolt really tight and just snugged down the left one for now. I'll take it for a drive down the hill to the wheat field as there are lots of bumps and jolts in that two track. It will give the loader a nice shake and sway to see if my adjustment holds.

 

[sd455dan]

I managed to get some adjustment by loosening the lock bolts on the pins, backing out of the loader by about half an inch, then moving the hook on the front left side of the top rail about a quarter inch closer to the rear of the tractor. My thought was that it would seat before the right hand hook, giving me a gap to close by tensioning the lock bolt on the right hand pin first. It took a couple of tries, and experimenting with the curl on the bucket and whether or not the tractor was able to roll or the brakes were locked, but I finally got the top frame to shift over nearly half an inch. I tightened the right side locking bolt really tight and just snugged down the left one for now. I'll take it for a drive down the hill to the wheat field as there are lots of bumps and jolts in that two track. It will give the loader a nice shake and sway to see if my adjustment holds.

Yep, there is room to shim in a few places if needed.

 

[WranglerX]

I went out and ran the loader to both stops and held it a couple of times. Then lowered the bucket to about six inches off the ground and measured as best I could. The hydraulic cylinder pins are actually bolts. Measuring from outside to outside, the left side is maybe a sixteenth of an inch shorter. Not enough in my opinion to cause the shift to the left. On a whim, I'm going to loosen the four bolts holding the mounting frame to the front of the tractor just to see if something shifts. While I had the tape measure out, I measured the gaps on the left and right. The left is 1 1/2", the right is 1/2"View attachment 814076View attachment 814077

Can you back off a few feet and take pictures showing more of whole assembly, you pics are so closeup its hard to see what the overall situation is...

 

[blehmann]

I took the tractor for a shakedown ride. Unfortunately, the arms shifted back to the left, so nothing was gained. I then parked it on the driveway as that is the most level place with tools close by. I put a level on the crossmember of what Koyker calls the right and left uprights. The uprights are the two T shaped pieces that are tied together at the upper nose of the tractor. The actual upright portions sit in the pockets bolted to the tractor at the transmission. The upper end of the uprights are where the arms are pinned and pivot up and down. The level on the crossmember showed that the left side needed to come up about 3/8". I loosened the four bolts on the nose of the tractor frame and lifted it until the bubble in the level was centered.

 

[blehmann]

Backing away from the tractor, it was obvious that the right arm was higher than the left. I put a level across the arms and determined that the left arm would have to be raised about a half inch for the two arms to be level with each other.

 

[blehmann]

The only way that I can see to raise the left arm would be to cut the welds on the front support frame that supports the horizontal pin that half moon cutout slides on to. That is a pretty good undertaking considering that both the upper and lower weld would have to be cut and rewelded.

 

[blehmann]

I noticed that the right side of the bucket touches the ground about an inch sooner than the left. However, there is enough slop in the attachments for the bucket to level out nicely. I can work with that, but I'll just have to get over my OCD and live with a whopper jawed loader when the bucket is off the ground or bite the bullet and change the front support on the left side..