Cedar for pergula (sp?)

[Richard]

Wife wants to build a pergula (sp?) over 2nd patio we have. She wants to use natural stuff like she saw in magazine.

We have TONS of cedar and some locust..though the cedar is much more prevelant AND of 8" to 16" diamater.

She doensn't want to use pt wood. So..if we dig, 5 foot hole, plant 13 or 15 foot (say 10" diamater) cedar log in there..will it last a long time? (is that deep enough?) Any thoughts on planting depth -vs- exposed height as ratio?

Should I prefer to find locust?

Seems some of the Cedar I see laying on the ground on the farm have had the "white outer" part..rot away and all's left is the red center. Regarding planting a cedar post like this..will over time, the outer "white' part rot/flake away? if so, how long? or..does the white part rot away faster for those that are on the ground, and this, being vertical (and not in ground contact), last longer?

Thanks for any thoughts

Richard

 

[TonyC]

From my experience cedar posts last a long time. I feel that they actually do better under the ground where oxygen can't get to it. As long as termites aren't a big problem in your area. If so, I would treat the part going into the ground with something (I'm not sure what!). Also in my opinion, locust would be even better. That is the most rock solid wood I've come across on my property. That stuff's too mean and onery to rot! I'm going to build a pergola soon myself but I'm going with PT.

 

[DocHeb]

Why not use concrete footings up to ground level, then use one of the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.strongtie.com/fr_homeowner.html>Simpson Company Post Brackets</A> to hold the cedar off the ground and out of rot's way. If you don't want CCA lumber, don't use any - use concrete!

 

[GlueGuy]

I agree with DocHeb on this one. Cedar is second only to redwood in terms of longevity, but if you do the concrete footing trick, then you solve two problems: 1. the wood isn't in the ground where it will rot quicker, and 2. the post is a lot easier to replace when (if) you do have to replace it.

I've seen a lot of pergolas done this way recently, and am leaning toward doing it this way as well (with the cement footings). I think the quickest/easiest way to do this is just get some sola tubes, pour the concrete, insert the brackets, then assemble the pergola.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Make that three for the concrete. But I didn't use the ready made standoffs. I did the concrete on this job so I put in a twelve inch pier under each proposed post.

Then after the slab was poured I drilled a two inch hole about six inches deep. I then placed stainless steel pins and plates I'd made.

Here's a picture of the plate ready for the post.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Boy that didn't work!

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I can't get the picture to post. There's some pictures <A target="_blank" HREF=http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/wroughtnharv/lst?.dir=/The+Project&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/>here</A>.

They're of a job I did last year where we started off with a jungle and ended up with just about the ultimate thirty by hundred forty foot playground any family could have.

The wood was all rough cut cedar beams. I got to make all the fancy cuts I'd only dreamed about before. Everything was either cedar, stainless, or rock. There are no visible fasteners. You can't see the lighting wiring and there's lights everywhere. It was assembled with joinery, hidden stainless fasteners, and Gorilla Glue.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Yeah, I know. I'm the second luckiest guy alive. The first won't just die!

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I have to share my secret to doing that job.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Now dahlin' that's what I call a saw!!! It's a Makita beam saw. That's a sixteen inch blade.

It's a one man tool, really. What I found, luck, I have it. I found a speed square that is special for something or another. Where it's different from regular speed squares is the flat edge is about an inch and a half deep. That allowed me to use wood clamps to hold it in place for my cut. Then I'd put that little gold baby up there, squeeze the trigger, wait for it to wind up, yup, it winds up about like a turbine jet plane motor. Then I'd push it through using the speed square as a guide.

Some of them boards I used started off being well over a hundred dollars. Then we cut them. If we cut them short, I had an expensive toothpick. Enough to make one want dentures.

 

[Richard]

To be clear..her intent isn't to necessarily use cedar..she saw in a magazine the use of raw tree parts WITH bark attached...not milled lumber at all. I'd be looking at cutting down 4 say 12" diamater cedar (locust) TREES locally, trim branches and stuff it back into the ground, as opposed to a cedar "post" as purchased at local HD or other. Not sure how easy it would be to lash that to a concerete base..but I gotta admit on the surface of it..I like that idea. Think the thinking cap needs to go back on for while with her.

Richard

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Morning Richard,

You can buy a two and a half inch Forstner or self feeding bit. Electricians have them. They can be expensive, excess of a hundred dollars just for the bit, if you don't shop for them. I was fortunate and found a couple of them on sale at get them outa here prices.

If you dig your holes and set a piece of two inch galvanized pipe (2 3/8" o.d.) in each hole and leave it standing up about six to eight inches. Then you can drill your two and a half inch hole into the bottom of your post.

I would weld a plate to my two inch pipe coming out of the ground where I'd have no chance of the bottom of the post sitting in water. If you have help you could put some large galvanized lags through holes in the plate before you welded it up. This would allow you to bolt the post to the plate from the bottom. You would need help or something like a FEL to hold the post up as you tighten the bolts but you would have a great installation.

What I did on that installation I have linked to was to use matching rock that we used for the decking around the bottom of the post like a base board. That way the gap is there. It won't hold water around the post. And it looks good too, best of all worlds.

It's been my observation that wood usually starts deteriorating from the end grains first. So in a fence I go through a lot of trouble keeping the pickets off the dirt. I also like to use a cap board over the top of the pickets, to again keep the moisture from just sitting on the end grain and eating away.

When you build your wife's dream you might want to keep that in the back of your head. BTW don't whatever you do take your wife via the internet <A target="_blank" HREF=http://magnificentproperties.com/lake_fork_log_house_east_of_dallas__1_8_m>here</A>.

 

[Richard]

Wow

 

[mikim]

<font color=blue>WITH bark attached ...</font color=blue>
I wouldn't leave the bark on ... leaves a place for bugs and water to get in and do their not-so-good thing ... taking it off lets the "white" wood dry and harden and makes the post last longer. just my .02
mike

 

[mikim]

Red?? Red Green .. is dat you???? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
mike