Cattle Question

[SmallTimeCountry]

So, here's the deal, I live in a small rural county in eastern Colorado. I own about 40 acres, which was zoned agriculture. Up until this point, I was paying the Ag rating. However, the county has been making their rounds to the nearby residents ordering them to get in line with the law or pay the residential tax. A difference of about $2-$3,000. This all moves my plans up by several years, as far as livestock. My question is: How many head of cattle could I run on a small piece of land? I'm looking at Highlanders or Angus with a loafing shed or two, all depending on how big of a barn I build in the Spring. I'm definitely new to this and willing to learn. I gotta start somewhere and welcome any tips or advice. Thanks.

 

[steve08]

So, here's the deal, I live in a small rural county in eastern Colorado. I own about 40 acres, which was zoned agriculture. Up until this point, I was paying the Ag rating. However, the county has been making their rounds to the nearby residents ordering them to get in line with the law or pay the residential tax. A difference of about $2-$3,000. This all moves my plans up by several years, as far as livestock. My question is: How many head of cattle could I run on a small piece of land? I'm looking at Highlanders or Angus with a loafing shed or two, all depending on how big of a barn I build in the Spring. I'm definitely new to this and willing to learn. I gotta start somewhere and welcome any tips or advice. Thanks.

Good choice on the Highlands:thumbsup:

No idea on how many you could run on 40 acres in that country...

Might talk to your county AG agent...

Good luck!

 

[smstonypoint]

Just a few thoughts/questions.

1. What does the law say in terms of the ag. income (or other factors) required to qualify for the exemption?

2. What do you plan to do about hay? If you buy hay, you could increase the stocking rate. What forages do you have now?

3. Rotational grazing might allow for a higher stocking rate. But it would require paddock fencing and providing water to the paddocks, and is labor- and management-intensive.

4. I second the recommendation to consult with the folks at your local Cooperative Extension Office.

5. I would recommend sitting down with pencil and paper (actually, a spreadsheet program) and constructing an enterprise budget showing projected revenues and costs. Here's an example from Colorado State.
http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/abm/cowcalfbudget.pdf. I don't know what the outcome will be, but it is conceivable that you will not be able to breakeven from a purely business perspective. (I realize that many folks get satisfaction from owning/managing livestock and may lose money from a business perspective. I don't have a problem with that.)

Good luck!

Steve

 

[wally hamma]

You did not say anything about fences( do you have any?) What are the fence law out there, in il. the law reads as you face your nieghber your fence is on your right. Myself I like angus
but don't know anything about highlands. In il. i run about 1 cow per 2 ac.
and still might have to feed hay in summer. I never buy hiefers always 4-6 year old. They will lay down @ calf by themself. I would say start small
you can always buy more cows.

 

[rtimgray]

Good advice from Stonypoint, from a business perspective. And he seems to know what he's talking about when it comes to economics and business.

He also raises the good question about hay. If you are going to grow/harvest your own hay, that's a whole nother ball of wax.

Just for reference, I usually keep about 18-20 cows at a given time. I've got three fields that I rotate them through that total about 100 acres, although some of that is timbered. We harvest hay (square bales) off of the farm as well, and let the cows have the pasture from that after we cut and it re-grows some. I usually have to feed hay from November through April, give or take, and go through 1,500 to 2,000 bales per year (of course this depends greatly on weather, how good the pasture is, how many cows/calves I have, etc.). I usually also supplement their diet through the winter with purchased ground feed (corn/hay/supplement).

Having said all that, I think it would be hard to get a money-making enterprise on 40 acres. You could certainly run a few cows for fun or aggravation, but I don't know if it would be considered a business enterprise or not. I count mine as part of my farming operation, and some years it makes a little money, and some years it doesn't.

I have cows mostly because I like having cows. I would hate to try to make a living out of it though. Have you considered any other livestock, like goats or llamas or some of those other funny creatures? I've got goats, too, and if anything, they are more aggravating than cows with even less of a return.

Anyway, whatever your decision, good luck and take care.

 

[Egon]

The size of the herd depends on the local conditions and whether you buy feed or not.
What do the Farmers around you have?
How many do you need to qualify as "Farm"?

 

[WM75Guy]

I too would check the ag requirements. In Texas ag exemption is for commercial ag use. You have to sell hay, cattle, horses, etc raised on your property. One way to avoid the winter feeding problem is to go to the sale barn in the spring, buy the required number of calves and sell them in the fall after they fatten up.

 

[wally hamma]

Buying calves in spring makes sense for some one just starting out.

 

[smstonypoint]

Here's some info on the economics of stocker operations (buying calves in the spring and selling them in the fall) that you may be able to modify to fit your circumstances.

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/assets/pdfs/A3718.pdf

Steve

PS -- I don't know my Colorado geography. Are there any large feedlots in your vicinity?

 

[brin]

I have some friends who are raising Angus cattle and Marketing them direct to consumers as " Hormone and Antibiotic free, grass fed Angus Beef " They are both doing very well and making some good money. They began by advertising in the State Farmers Bulletin and Craig's List and now word of mouth keeps them busy..They have an approved meat processor that the customer deals with and pays . There seems to be a lot of health concious folks that enjoy knowing where their Beef comes from.

 

[smstonypoint]

Another thought/question.

What documentation do you have to provide to obtain the exemption? If you have to provide copies of Schedule F, you may run into IRS issues. Will your enterprise(s) pass muster as a business (versus a hobby)?

I don't want to come off as being pessimistic, but rather as raising some issues that may be relevant.

Steve

 

[bdeboer]

A couple of thoughts:

In Ohio we do not have to report the income if we own over ten acres. In other words, you can lose money on the farming end of it and still come out ahead because of the tax savings.

I would be concerned about being tied down by the livestock. You cannot just take off for a week without someone to check the animals, etc.

 

[SandburRanch]

As mentioned, check with your county extension agent since he is more familiar with your conditions than anyone on a web site.

The short answer to your question is "not very many cows" without a feed supplement program if your acreage has native grass and no irrigation. Example: the average annual rainfall in Cheyenne Wells is 16 inches.

 

[smstonypoint]

In Ohio we do not have to report the income if we own over ten acres. In other words, you can lose money on the farming end of it and still come out ahead because of the tax savings.

Based on the comments here and in other threads discussing ag. property tax exemptions, the requirements to qualify for an exemption differ across states.

Out of curiosity (and to kill time before leaving for a medical appointment), I looked up the requirements for Colorado. http://assessor.mesacounty.us/assessor/pub_b5.pdf

The Colorado requirements appear to be more strict than those of some states.

Steve

 

[jayste]

As others have said check with the county ag agent. He or she will shed a lot of light on your questions. A stocker program might be your best first attempt. It'll kind of "get your feet wet" and see if livestock is right for you. You might want to try another type of agribusiness or just a hobby. BTW, my experience tells me that the straight Angus breed may do well at the sale barn but you may also have to feed them more. Seems they don't "hustle" as well as other breeds or another breed crossed with the Angus.

 

[bdeboer]

Based on the comments here and in other threads discussing ag. property tax exemptions, the requirements to qualify for an exemption differ across states.

Out of curiosity (and to kill time before leaving for a medical appointment), I looked up the requirements for Colorado. http://assessor.mesacounty.us/assessor/pub_b5.pdf

The Colorado requirements appear to be more strict than those of some states.

Steve

I have to fill out a card that comes in the mail from the tax assessor once a year. If I do not fill the card out by a certain date it automatically loses it's ag. status. Plus the county does come out and do an occasional visual check of the land. The guy that cuts our hay has had to provide a letter of production for another landowner in the past. Due to the fact that it didn't get cut early enough.

 

[SmallTimeCountry]

I appreciate the responses. I've learned a lot from reading through the posts on this website and have realized that this is just a good place for good advice. So, thanks. But to answer some of the questions....Here's what I understand as far as the Ag rating and what my county is looking for, at least in Colorado, is that you must have at least three head and show some type of profit from your livestock or from the product that is produced from your land. Although, that's when talking cattle, it isn't necessarily true with other types of livestock. I didn't read that far into it.

As far as feed, the acreage has some very nice grass hay with very little weeds for the summer months and I understand that I would have to hay them in the winter, not a problem, whether I buy the hay or bale it myself along with supplements, etc. I have fenced the property and cross-fenced it into three different pastures with the understanding that it may need to be hot wired, which I don't have a problem with. I don't think getting ample water to them would be a problem and shelter....Well, I haven't decided on that 100% yet, especially if they are here through some of the harsh winters. Loafing sheds? Maybe? Highlanders are pretty hearty.

Like some said in their responses, they just like cows. I'm kinda the same way. I'm not looking to form a multi-million dollar corporation but just do something I know I would enjoy. Getting in touch with the county extension agent is great advice and imperative for me in order to figure this out. Whether there is necessarily a profit or not, really doesn't matter to me, and I know there won't be much of one based on the amount of land that I have to work with. But maybe buying two or three in the spring and selling them off in the fall might be worth a shot at some point. But for now, yeah, maybe just a hobby, and something different for my daughter to learn about, other than the city life.

Thanks again for all the well needed advice. If you think of anything else, I would be happy to read about it. Do's and Don'ts, mistakes made along the way? By the way, copy and paste the two links below and see what we're up against here in Colorado. Although, it doesn't sound like a real big deal right now, it's something that could be headed your way in the future.


Legislation aims to minimize Colorado's ag-land tax breaks - The Denver Post

Colorado Cattlemen - News

 

[Jerry/MT]

So, here's the deal, I live in a small rural county in eastern Colorado. I own about 40 acres, which was zoned agriculture. Up until this point, I was paying the Ag rating. However, the county has been making their rounds to the nearby residents ordering them to get in line with the law or pay the residential tax. A difference of about $2-$3,000. This all moves my plans up by several years, as far as livestock. My question is: How many head of cattle could I run on a small piece of land? I'm looking at Highlanders or Angus with a loafing shed or two, all depending on how big of a barn I build in the Spring. I'm definitely new to this and willing to learn. I gotta start somewhere and welcome any tips or advice. Thanks.

What do you want to do with cows;have a cow-calf enterprise or yearling operation?
COW-CALF
Get a soil map from NCRS and see what the rated capability to produce pasture and hay on you place. Talk to your Extension Agent and see what it takes to winter cows ( e.g. 2 tons of good hay/ head).

Lets say you ground can produce 3 tons of good grass hay per acre. The every acre of hayground can support 1.5 cows. Ask your extension agent the carrying capacity of the ground (acres per cow). Say that's three acres per cow.
( 3.0 +.667)* X = 40 acres, X~11 cows))

So if if you divided the ground into a 33 acres of pasture and 7 acres of hay ground you could support almost 11 cows grazing and produce 21T of hay to winter them with. You 'd need to buy a ton of hay for winter if all these numbers were exact.
Start by producing hay and make sure of your production and stock at half of this rate just to be safe. A dry year could make it so you can't achieve these goals. Sell your calves in the fall. Work you way up to a sustainable operation.

YEARLING
Buy yearlings to graze off the grass and sell them in the fall and don't hay. Your county extension agent can help you decide what will be best for you based on your goals for the land. You'll need to stock to get the calves to grow at 2-2.5 lbs per day minimum and again, your extension agent shoud be able to help you. Don't stock to the maximum because you'll have to learn the ground and what it will actually carry under your management. Some years are better than others.

This just a brief over view of how to approach this question.

 

[SmallTimeCountry]

Jerry-

Outstanding! Thank you, that's what I'm looking for. I certainly appreciate it and will keep you posted on the results and the information that I'm able to come up with through the extension agent. He seems to be the key. Thanks again.

 

[Jimmy Joe]

A friend of mine rents his land to a farmer and gets the ag discount.