Case 450 Dozer Battery

[skyking002]

Trying to resurrect my neighbors dozer. Serial number 3059725. I don’t have the manuals and the battery has been removed. My research has conflicting information on the proper battery. Some says 31 group and others 4D. Anyone have the proper battery information or service manual? Thanks!

 

[rScotty]

Can't help on most of it, but this is the best chart I've found for comparing battery box size to figure out what is going to fit:

BCI Battery Group Size Chart

Knowing exact BCI group battery size helps finding new battery replacement, however, knowing just BCI group size is often not enough...

www.batteryequivalents.com

Starting with the battery box still leaves a lot of decisions. There are several different terminal types and polarity configs - - not to mention Wet, AGM, and Sealed types. Plus starting, deep-cycle, and dual purpose.
ALL OF THEM WILL WORK. Not all will start an old diesel on a cold morning.....

On old equipment I usually just get the largest, heaviest, highest CCA in a 12 volt AG starting type battery that will fit the battery box and the cables. Odyssey brand AGM batteries are top choices for fire and police depts when budget allows. You can buy them online from a California shipper.

rScotty

 

[skyking002]

Thanks for the great information. You have at least given me a starting point.

 

[rScotty]

Good luck with it. My buddy has done a couple of older Deere dozers and one road grader. I'm always surprised at how well those old machines respond to what is really just fixing maintenance problems, bearings, hoses and such. They get parked for something simple and then nobody ever gets back to them.
On most of them the major systems are still fine.

Re: batteries, some of the old ones were set up to use parallel 12 volt batteries for more cranking amps
I used to do that, but in the last 5 years or so I can't seem to get two batteries that are electrically similar enough so that one doesn't drag the other down. That's even when buying identicals from the factory.

So I've been paying more attention to pre-heat and just using a single real good battery. No more duals.
That works surprisingly well, and sure is simpler. On my old 310 with dual 12s I alternate the batteries instead of running them in parallel. Seems to be just as good.
rScotty

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Good luck with it. My buddy has done a couple of older Deere dozers and one road grader. I'm always surprised at how well those old machines respond to what is really just fixing maintenance problems, bearings, hoses and such. They get parked for something simple and then nobody ever gets back to them.
On most of them the major systems are still fine.

Re: batteries, some of the old ones were set up to use parallel 12 volt batteries for more cranking amps
I used to do that, but in the last 5 years or so I can't seem to get two batteries that are electrically similar enough so that one doesn't drag the other down. That's even when buying identicals from the factory.

So I've been paying more attention to pre-heat and just using a single real good battery. No more duals.
That works surprisingly well, and sure is simpler. On my old 310 with dual 12s I alternate the batteries instead of running them in parallel. Seems to be just as good.
rScotty

Has to be sure not 24 volt also.

 

[skyking002]

I just rebuilt the starter. Hoping to get it on this weekend. It’s a 12V system. The gentleman who owned it just parked it one day. His health prevented him from tinkering with all of his equipment. Trying to help his widow. I have a local place that rebuilds batteries. I can get a rebuilt 4D group battery for the same price as a new 31 Group. I figure it will take some cranking to get the engine running after many years of sitting.

 

[rScotty]

When I was a kid in rural Eastern Oklahoma/Arkansas my dad taught me how to rebuild batteries. It used to be a common rural mechanic garage skill.

There is no reason at all not to use a good rebuilt battery. Ask for one that has good pure lead plates - still thick and not warped or cracked. What you really want is a good battery that failed because the sulphation built up until it shorted the bottom of the plates. That is a common failure mode. When rebuilt, those are every bit as good as new. To keep them that way, set the battery on a rubber pad or spacers to reduce the vibration, check the Sp. Grav. every summer, and only add distilled water.

Can't wait to hear it running.
luck, rScotty

 

[skyking002]

Great info! It always amazes me how much how to knowledge has been lost. Wish I had half the knowledge of the previous generations.

 

[japody]

I have a 450 Case. It takes a 31 battery.

 

[skyking002]

Perfect, Thanks

 

[Hay Dude]

Group 31 is so common in large machinery and trucks. My IH7500 takes 3 or 4 group 31’s.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

As easy as MY Case 450 starts, almost any 12V battery will start it!

FOR SURE any 12V that will start a pu.

SR

 

[skyking002]

Ended up with a 4D battery after measuring the box. Battery is good and so is the starter. The bad news is that the combination won’t turn the poor old engine over. I’m afraid it had sat too long. I have zero diesel knowledge which doesn’t help my cause. If it was a gas engine, I’d pull the plugs and fill the cylinders with penetrating oil. Any suggestions on how to free it up?

 

[rScotty]

I've never had to free up a stuck diesel like that. My understanding is that you pull the injectors - or I suppose you could also pull the glow plugs if it has them. Anyway to get access to fill the cylinders with your choice of a rust-busting penetrating oil.
Followed every few days with a socket on the crankshaft nut and a long socket wrench to try to get the crank to move a few degrees. But that is hearsay, not knowledge.

You may want to move this thread or restart it up at a more popular part of Tractorbynet.

Parts/Repairs

General compact tractor parts and repairs discussion.

www.tractorbynet.com

A lot more people will see it there.

 

[4570Man]

Ended up with a 4D battery after measuring the box. Battery is good and so is the starter. The bad news is that the combination won’t turn the poor old engine over. I’m afraid it had sat too long. I have zero diesel knowledge which doesn’t help my cause. If it was a gas engine, I’d pull the plugs and fill the cylinders with penetrating oil. Any suggestions on how to free it up?

What steps have you taken to verify the engine is actually seized?

 

[skyking002]

What steps have you taken to verify the engine is actually seized?

I have only tried using the starter to turn it. When the starter which was just rebuilt was unable, I removed the starter and tried a bar on the fly wheel. I’m afraid to pry much harder than I have. I’m afraid of busting off a tooth.

 

[rScotty]

That pry bar on a flywheel tooth method only works if everything is real free...... With just a little bit of "stuck", It's almost impossible to turn an engine with leverage on a flywheel toothwithout breaking something. I agree it needs to be verified that the engine is stuck fast.
Can you get to the front crankshaft nut? Or some front pulleys have provision to turn them. Either one will give you enough leverage with body weight on a 3 or 4 foot cheater to rotate the crank. It is worth the effort to find a tool for doing that, because if it is stuck you are going to have to do that to rock the crank even after putting penetrating oil in the cylinders.
I'd somehow assumed that the starter was known to be able to spin the engine. But if the crank does rotate with a socket on it, that says something about the starter as well.
rScotty

 

[Sawyer Rob]

It sounds stuck to me, did a bit of water get in it through the exhaust pipe?

IF it's stuck, pulling the injectors and adding Kroil of something similar is the next step.

SR

 

[skyking002]

It sounds stuck to me, did a bit of water get in it through the exhaust pipe?

IF it's stuck, pulling the injectors and adding Kroil of something similar is the next step.

SR

The exhaust is capped but after so much time sitting, I’m not sure.