Can't find a house plan

[EddieWalker]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

Mr. Inveresk,

Obviously I'm not doing a good job of expressing my position, and for this I apologize. I reckognize that my lack of education limits my abilities in what I do, including expressing myself here.

I have nothing but respect for engineers and architects for just about everything they do. Especially when you're coming up with something new.

My falling out with your profession has nothing to do with your skills or knowledge. I have nothing but admiration for people that are smarter than I am. I can easily recognize that in you and others on this site. That's what brought me here, and it's what keeps me here.

My issue is strictly in the need of your profesion for a medium sized home. I don't think people need an architect or an engineer to build a modest single family home. 2,000 square feet is well within the building skills and knowledge of just about every compitent builder.

To pay $2 a foot, or in some areas, even more, to come up with a set of blueprints is a total waste of money. Especially when the builder can usually do it for free, and in my experience, do it better.

I say this based on some of the drawings I've come across on jobs I've been on. I've done allot of work as a sub, and a little as the GC. I've seen accessories, angles and distances that made absolutely no sense at all on one page, but created a very pretty picture on another page.

The home owner is sold on the picture of the house without understanding that maybe a bedroom 8 feet wide isn't going to be very useful or that there is no way to fit a toilet in the bathroom. They don't realize that a dormer is a $1,600 to $2,000 extra on a single story house that is just for looks. Put three on the house, and we're talking about the difference between a high end kitchen and an average one.

I responded to this thread in hopes to save Alan a few bucks if I can, and maybe give him some things to think about in the process of building his home. If he can find a good builder who does his own plans, then Alan can save $4,000 right off the top if they charge $2 sq ft for plans.

Thank you for your patience,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

Mr. Inveresk,

Obviously I'm not doing a good job of expressing my position, and for this I apologize. I reckognize that my lack of education limits my abilities in what I do, including expressing myself here.

I have nothing but respect for engineers and architects for just about everything they do. Especially when you're coming up with something new.

My falling out with your profession has nothing to do with your skills or knowledge. I have nothing but admiration for people that are smarter than I am. I can easily recognize that in you and others on this site. That's what brought me here, and it's what keeps me here.

My issue is strictly in the need of your profesion for a medium sized home. I don't think people need an architect or an engineer to build a modest single family home. 2,000 square feet is well within the building skills and knowledge of just about every compitent builder.

To pay $2 a foot, or in some areas, even more, to come up with a set of blueprints is a total waste of money. Especially when the builder can usually do it for free, and in my experience, do it better.

I say this based on some of the drawings I've come across on jobs I've been on. I've done allot of work as a sub, and a little as the GC. I've seen accessories, angles and distances that made absolutely no sense at all on one page, but created a very pretty picture on another page.

The home owner is sold on the picture of the house without understanding that maybe a bedroom 8 feet wide isn't going to be very useful or that there is no way to fit a toilet in the bathroom. They don't realize that a dormer is a $1,600 to $2,000 extra on a single story house that is just for looks. Put three on the house, and we're talking about the difference between a high end kitchen and an average one.

I responded to this thread in hopes to save Alan a few bucks if I can, and maybe give him some things to think about in the process of building his home. If he can find a good builder who does his own plans, then Alan can save $4,000 right off the top if they charge $2 sq ft for plans.

Thank you for your patience,
Eddie

 

[JasonL]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

I am hesitant to reply to this thread because I don't know if anything I say will help the original poster... and because as has been stated I'm sure there are both good and BAD builders and architects.

Hopefully without offending anyone, here is my two cents! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I am a residential framer, I (and my crew) frame custom homes ranging from mid-level to high end. We work for several different general contractors and also for individuals who wish to contract for themselves.

From my 15+ years experience, I have very seldom (if ever!) been able to frame a home as drawn by the architect. This usually is because it can not be done (at least not economically) The best prints we see are from a builder that now draws prints. Sometimes we get prints with none of the elevations drawn the same!

Now- I am not bashing architects in general, I just think without a knowledgable builder involved, these discrepencies can become major issues that change the entire look and scope of the project, and usually to the client's detriment.

I know I don't have all the answers, and there have been times when I thought something couldn't be done and was proven wrong (by the architect!) However, if there was some way we could each walk in the others shoes for a while, we would likely appreciate each others talents more /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The talent most architects have (that I wish I had more of) is the ability to convey a feeling or look to a project that (hopefully) is what the client wants. I am often to caught up in worrying about how that roofline will work out to visualize what they are trying to acheive. Often, in the field, if I do understand the idea, I can suggest a change that is both feasible and still works within the overall concept.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that good PEOPLE build great houses!

Jason

 

[JasonL]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

I am hesitant to reply to this thread because I don't know if anything I say will help the original poster... and because as has been stated I'm sure there are both good and BAD builders and architects.

Hopefully without offending anyone, here is my two cents! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I am a residential framer, I (and my crew) frame custom homes ranging from mid-level to high end. We work for several different general contractors and also for individuals who wish to contract for themselves.

From my 15+ years experience, I have very seldom (if ever!) been able to frame a home as drawn by the architect. This usually is because it can not be done (at least not economically) The best prints we see are from a builder that now draws prints. Sometimes we get prints with none of the elevations drawn the same!

Now- I am not bashing architects in general, I just think without a knowledgable builder involved, these discrepencies can become major issues that change the entire look and scope of the project, and usually to the client's detriment.

I know I don't have all the answers, and there have been times when I thought something couldn't be done and was proven wrong (by the architect!) However, if there was some way we could each walk in the others shoes for a while, we would likely appreciate each others talents more /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The talent most architects have (that I wish I had more of) is the ability to convey a feeling or look to a project that (hopefully) is what the client wants. I am often to caught up in worrying about how that roofline will work out to visualize what they are trying to acheive. Often, in the field, if I do understand the idea, I can suggest a change that is both feasible and still works within the overall concept.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that good PEOPLE build great houses!

Jason

 

[Alan L.]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

Wow, all of this great input to my problem. Mine is a fairly unique situation. The "builder" is my lifetime friend. We built a tree house when we were about 12, it was MY dad that built houses for a living. He was around construction most of his life and about 10 years ago he began building spec houses. He has been dealing with very good subs and has built a good reputation so that he now builds some custom homes, modifying plans presented to him by the owners. He built my daughter's house in 2000 and another custom home he built in 2001 I bought from the original owner 3 years ago for a rent house. Good, economical construction.

I have been doing his tax returns for life, his kids tax returns (his son is in the pool business) etc. He will absolutely not accept any fee or payment for helping me build my house. By helping me, that will mean he will line up the subs, sign the paperwork as builder for the loan, get bids and track costs, etc.

The house we want is not close to anything he has ever built. It is readily apparent that it will take some time by him and the framer to "engineer" it. The problem is large spans, cathedral ceilings, no place for HVAC, etc. In reality we really want a log home, but the cost is too high, the energy efficiency questionable, insurance, financing, settling, bugs, all potential problems.

The reason I have felt the need for an architect, or at least a draftsman, is to take this reponsibility off my friend, leaving him only to worry about the rest of the job since he is working for free.

The basic plan is a simple rectangular shaped house, no offsets. The expense will be in the premium materials, like stonework, premium windows, foam insulation, metal roofing etc.

If it will cost $4000 I'd be hard pressed to spend that much. Maybe $1500 to $2000 for plans that we can hand to the subs and get firm bids. I think that would save money in the long run.

Thats why it would be wonderful if I could find some standard plans that could be modified. But getting bids from all the subs with nothing but a floorplan that doesn't show where the ductwork will go, where the HVAC units will go, and how to hold up the 27' ceiling without the rafters pushing out the walls would seem iffy at best. Plus, I'm afraid I'll have a door opening into something, although my friend assures me that the framers are very good about catching design flaws and coming up with their own good ideas.

The framing also has to be done to facilitate the "hot roof" technology whereby the entire house including the "attics" is insulated with foam, which means the soffits are sealed off from the attic and there is no attic ventilation. This is a recognized design here in Texas where its so hot (98 degrees yesterday and its not even summer yet). Up north it can cause ice dams.

Bottom line is that I am trying to take as much of the design aspect from my friend as I can. Its too much to ask him spend hours in design and drawing the plan on top of running the project.

 

[Alan L.]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

Wow, all of this great input to my problem. Mine is a fairly unique situation. The "builder" is my lifetime friend. We built a tree house when we were about 12, it was MY dad that built houses for a living. He was around construction most of his life and about 10 years ago he began building spec houses. He has been dealing with very good subs and has built a good reputation so that he now builds some custom homes, modifying plans presented to him by the owners. He built my daughter's house in 2000 and another custom home he built in 2001 I bought from the original owner 3 years ago for a rent house. Good, economical construction.

I have been doing his tax returns for life, his kids tax returns (his son is in the pool business) etc. He will absolutely not accept any fee or payment for helping me build my house. By helping me, that will mean he will line up the subs, sign the paperwork as builder for the loan, get bids and track costs, etc.

The house we want is not close to anything he has ever built. It is readily apparent that it will take some time by him and the framer to "engineer" it. The problem is large spans, cathedral ceilings, no place for HVAC, etc. In reality we really want a log home, but the cost is too high, the energy efficiency questionable, insurance, financing, settling, bugs, all potential problems.

The reason I have felt the need for an architect, or at least a draftsman, is to take this reponsibility off my friend, leaving him only to worry about the rest of the job since he is working for free.

The basic plan is a simple rectangular shaped house, no offsets. The expense will be in the premium materials, like stonework, premium windows, foam insulation, metal roofing etc.

If it will cost $4000 I'd be hard pressed to spend that much. Maybe $1500 to $2000 for plans that we can hand to the subs and get firm bids. I think that would save money in the long run.

Thats why it would be wonderful if I could find some standard plans that could be modified. But getting bids from all the subs with nothing but a floorplan that doesn't show where the ductwork will go, where the HVAC units will go, and how to hold up the 27' ceiling without the rafters pushing out the walls would seem iffy at best. Plus, I'm afraid I'll have a door opening into something, although my friend assures me that the framers are very good about catching design flaws and coming up with their own good ideas.

The framing also has to be done to facilitate the "hot roof" technology whereby the entire house including the "attics" is insulated with foam, which means the soffits are sealed off from the attic and there is no attic ventilation. This is a recognized design here in Texas where its so hot (98 degrees yesterday and its not even summer yet). Up north it can cause ice dams.

Bottom line is that I am trying to take as much of the design aspect from my friend as I can. Its too much to ask him spend hours in design and drawing the plan on top of running the project.

 

[rox]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

Alan,

Why don't you draw out a sketch of your dream home and post it. It is much easier for us to look at a sketch.

 

[rox]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

Alan,

Why don't you draw out a sketch of your dream home and post it. It is much easier for us to look at a sketch.

 

[dooleysm]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

We built our own home 2 years ago. My wife and I came up with a general floorplan and handed that off to her brother, a licensed architect. Her father, a builder, then helped us build it.

We did alot ourselves, but we didn't to any HVAC. Our plans didn't have any HVAC considerations at all. Our HVAC contractor laid it all out and ran all the ductwork as he saw fit. I don't see why you couldn't find an equally competant HVAC installer.

 

[dooleysm]

Re: Can\'t find a house plan

We built our own home 2 years ago. My wife and I came up with a general floorplan and handed that off to her brother, a licensed architect. Her father, a builder, then helped us build it.

We did alot ourselves, but we didn't to any HVAC. Our plans didn't have any HVAC considerations at all. Our HVAC contractor laid it all out and ran all the ductwork as he saw fit. I don't see why you couldn't find an equally competant HVAC installer.