BX25D engine brakign vid

[chucky79]

is your bx25d a -1 or not? think that has any bearing on things?

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

is your bx25d a -1 or not? think that has any bearing on things?

It is a -1 and I don't think that has anything to do with it. I believe Kubota will fix this when they are contacted by enough dealers expressing their customers and potential customers discontent. I personally would not buy another BX25D without driving it and seeing that it stops when the pedal is released like it is supposed to.
I don't care that it rolls a bit (foot or so) in high speed but when I'm creeping up to something that I need to not hit, like a wall or truck or person, I want it to STOP when I release my foot. Period. Exclamation point. I've never bought a different brand tractor and doesn't enter my mind to do so due to quality of product for the price and dealer contact and reputation. I shopped Green ($3000 more) and blue ($2500 more) during my first and second purchase and don't anymore. Being a trader I don't consider the less costly brands that don't have long time established local brand awareness and that may be sold at a local cycle shop or hardware store or new dealership that sells most box store lawn mowers. Not saying they aren't decent machines, for the money, but they don't sell quick unless the price is reduced to low for me to be able to sleep. Customer perception is some times more important than the truth. Especially if you have something for sale and your customer perceives the product being of far less value than you do. I buy Kubotas and all of them haven't been perfect, just like all other brands but the ones I've bought have been close enough to suit me in the overall scheme of things. Most issues can be resolved and this one will eventually be but it may require trading to a different machine of the same brand, for me..

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Yes it still rolls forward after I release the pedal in low gear, but it seems to have gotten better since I greased the absolute living p!ss out of my HST pedal linkage. I bought it used, and I think the prior owner may have failed to grease that linkage through the hole in the floorboard.

If/when it FINALLY stops raining here, I'll run some tests on my BX2660 in low gear at low/mid/high throttle settings to see how far it rolls after releasing the pedal.

I agree that it should NOT continue to roll forward after you release the pedal. For people who haven't experienced this, it is very much like a tractor that is freewheeling forward after you have mashed the clutch, although not quite as freewheeling as that.

I can tell you that my BX23 has always been perfect in this regard, or at least what I consider to be perfect. I.e., I release the HST pedal and it stops. Period. With no drama.

BX23 has always been perfect in this regard, or at least what I consider to be perfect. I.e., I release the HST pedal and it stops. Period. With no drama ...........The way it is supposed to do or all of mine have in the B, BX and L models I've owned, except for this BX25D-1.
Over the years I've owned a lot of cars and my regular sales people some times will stop their canned sales pitch on a specific vehicle and tell me that I probably know more about it than they do since I've owned several of the specific models. I know this BX25D is wrong in it's stopping or lack there of and that the master mechanic at the dealership has done his best efforts to fix it because he to knows I know it's wrong. It's not grease or the lack of grease on this specific machine and all of them at Barlows are doing it and other owners around the country are confessing the same way of working.
I had a BX2350 that would snap my back/neck when stopping in reverse, but not in forward. I'd owned several HST Kubotas by the time I bought it and have owned several since I owned it and none of them stopped like the BX2350 in reverse, none of them. I knew it was not operating properly. This BX25D and any of them that keeps coasting when the pedal is released is not operating the way an HST should work. Working properly as currently engineered by Kubota engineers, I don't know but for me as an HST buyer, it's flawed/poorly designed/not right. I won't buy any more that operates like this one does.so I'm claiming that I'm right and if the engineers say it's operating properly and won't change it then their company will not get any more of my money.

 

[SPYDERLK]

If you do that on other Kubota's, you would practically get thrown over the steering wheel. 25 ft is not typical, and I think that is what people are complaining about. The higher the gear and speed, the more abrupt and violent it would feel. I know when road transporting my Kubotas in high gear, I have to very gently feather off the pedal before coming to a stop otherwise it's a very abrupt and jerky stop.

The issue isn't really engine braking -- it has to do with how quickly the HST treadle is allowed to return to center by the damper. The resulting braking action is independent of engine RPM for the most part (other than the RPM determined the starting speed of course). It's caused by the HST itself.

Engine braking generally happens when the transmission drives against the engine and the vehicle's motion raises engine RPMs. That can't really happen with an HST setup, it's more of something you get with manual or automatic transmissions. An HST is a separate hydraulic pump arrangement, and it can't really back-load an engine (can certainly forward-load it though).

It isnt as easy to notice, but driive from the wheels to the engine is there. Hi gear downhill full pedal is easiest to see it, and only special cases favor use in those conditions. Where you can find them, just let off the pedal a little and youll see the engine rpm rise a bit.

 

[Journeys]

To the OP. When the tractor is on a hill does it continue to roll down the hill with the brakes off but the HST is in stopped position ? If its on flat ground can it be pushed and have the wheels move? The problem you are having can't happen with a correctly operating HST. Its all about fluid flow to make the machine go, right? All the lever does it change flow of the fluid, faster slower front back. When its in neutral no fluid should be able to move so the wheels can't move. This older thread, even talks about the older bx24 tells you that if you have the HST in stop it can't move nor can it be moved. http://www.mytractorforum.com/76-cu...ompact-tractors/163871-kubota-push-towed.html

I had an issue with my JD 30+ years ago. The valve froze (rusted shut more like it) and I had a **** of time moving the machine. So to me, and I don't doubt you have some kind of issue, for some reason you must have some kind of 'internal fluid leak' between the pedal and the neutral setting on your gear. If I understand it correctly when you put kubota's in neutral you can tow them...is that correct? That would be the same as the valve I used. To me that is one way the machine could keep moving even when the pedal has it at stop. It appears its not a lot of fluid just enough to not stop immediately. The other is that some way the fluid is allowed to flow thru the valve controlled by the foot control, I can't fathom that one but hey anything is possible.

Or do I have this all wrong? Lets be honest this is serious safety issue. Other than steering or parked (actually I often forget) I don't use brakes on an hst because it just stops the machine. Frankly I remember wishing it would coast down some hills to make it go faster but it couldn't do that (I was younger and more foolish then) because of HST. Anyway my two cents to try to help.

 

[chucky79]

To the OP. When the tractor is on a hill does it continue to roll down the hill with the brakes off but the HST is in stopped position ? If its on flat ground can it be pushed and have the wheels move? The problem you are having can't happen with a correctly operating HST. Its all about fluid flow to make the machine go, right? All the lever does it change flow of the fluid, faster slower front back. When its in neutral no fluid should be able to move so the wheels can't move. .

If that's the case then my bx2370-1 has a problem too because mine will creep down a steep hill even with my foot off the HST pedal. No fast mind you but she will roll.....

I guess im struggling envisioning your issue johnthomas. My bx2370 rolls till the pedal finds its way back to center when I let off...takes a few moments but it does get there and stop. when im moving slow and carefully she is very responsive though and slows and stops when I move my foot. perhaps mine isn't doing what yours does because I envision yours rolling even when letting off the pedal no matter what rpm, what speed, or what range.....yes that would drive me nuts too...... ill post a video of how mine behaves and hopefully you will find time to do the same.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

When I let off the pedal in turtle speed and going slow (not full out speed on level surface), it doesn't always stop. Some times it continues to roll on like it is coasting till I hit the brake pedal. Foots up and rolling rolling rolling rolling rolling.
I'm not talking about it sitting on a hill and the foot pedal sitting in neutral position and it sort of creeping down the hill which many will do that and that is no problem.
If your going slow and let off the pedal and yours keeps rolling and rolling and rolling and rolling and rolling and you know the foot pedal is back to center because you have your leg up on the hood then yours has a problem. I doubt yours is doing that. Forget the hill part and stay with on level surface, slow speed and you let off on pedal. Does it keep rolling and rolling and rolling until the gravitational pull of the earth spinning stops it? My BX25D some times does that on a regular basis. Not 100% of the time but to often to ever feel secure that it's going to stop when I let off the foot pedal when I'm creeping up to the side of my or someone elses new truck to drop something into the bed of the truck without having to keep one foot on the brake which I've gotten used to never using other than when I dismount the tractor.

 

[k0ua]

I will throw my 2 cents in here for what it is worth. This is in reference to my current tractor a Kioti DK35se and the Kubota L3400. Both hydrostat equipped machines, and both work exactly the same. On level ground, any range, any speed, if you yank your foot off of the forward or reverse pedals abruptly, the tractor will stop abruptly. In other words very fast. Obviously if your forward speed is faster the abrupt stop will be more violent. On level ground once your foot is taken from the hydro pedal, the tractor will never move again. It will not roll on. So if you are creeping up to the side of something "expensive" you can be assured that it will not roll into it. NOW that said, if you are nose down a hill and yank your foot off of the pedal the tractor will stop, sometimes even skidding the back tires if the surface is gravel or slick, but over a period of time the tractor will "drift" slowly downhill unless you either apply brake or a little reverse pedal.

That is my observation of both tractors. It does seem to me that the Kioti dampner response, that is the time the pedals return to neutral is slightly slower than the Kubota was. The Kioti uses the two pedal setup and the Kubota was a single treadle pedal. Also of note the Kubota was a direct connection of the pedal to the hydrostat swash plate and the Kioti uses a hydraulic control of the swash plate thru a "modulator" valve that the pedals control.. So sort of "power steering" for swash plate control not direct connection to the plate.

But these differences are very minor. The Kioti will still stop very abruptly, and I have never rolled on or run into anything after taking my foot off of the pedal. I believe this is how a hydrostat should operate, and agree that any rolling on could be dangerous or at the least costly.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

kOua: Yep, that's right. That's how all of mine except the BX25D have worked and I've had/have a few Kubota HSTs. Also how I want and expect the HST to work.

 

[chucky79]

When I let off the pedal in turtle speed and going slow (not full out speed on level surface), it doesn't always stop. Some times it continues to roll on like it is coasting till I hit the brake pedal. Foots up and rolling rolling rolling rolling rolling.

no mine doesn't do that. it will stop once the pedal makes it back to center. I think the speed in which it stops varies based on the speed of the tractor, range, and terrain but she does stop. What your describing would drive me nuts. You think its something that can be repaired or is it like the abrupt 50 series stop in which they never figured it out? my wife isn't gonna let me get a new tractor in a few years once I finally buy so I guess I need to track this issue and see what happens..... its going to be a 20 yr tractor for me.