Oil & Fuel BX 2360 run with no oil.....

[kuboman]

Save your money and don't bother with an oil analysis. Did you do damage? Of course you did. Bearings and cam shaft take it the worst. I assume the engine was cold so that would help. Run it and it will likely run a very long time but if its life ends early then you will know why. We all do dumb things, just kick yourself and then forget about it and carry on. There is no point in worrying about it as it is done.

 

[csr0831]

No loan, I own the tractor. I bought it in 2013. So this thing (my wife calls it baby) is about 5 years old. I had been using the tractor for about and hour before I drained the oil and the engine was still hot when I drained it. I worked on the Gravely for about the next hour and then came back and changed the oil filter and "filled" the BX and started it. So it was probably about and hour and a half from the time I drained the oil to the time I started it.

I tend to agree with koboman. It's 5 years old and only has 120 hours on it. At that rate it will very likely out live me. I will retire in a year or two and then the usage will probably go up, but I still suspect it may out live me....or at least last until I'm too **** old to sit on the thing. IF I do find there is metal in the oil, then that certainly confirms the damage and I'll know. I understand everyone's point about establishing a base line, but is that going to change the outcome? No. I will continue to run it until the damage (if there is any) manifest itself as some form of performance issue. Then, I will address it.

All that said, I am curious. I sent off for the oil testing kit and will test the oil before I change it again. I would like to know....just because that's how I am, if any damage was done. Now, that begs the question, if the oil comes back contaminated, most certainly the engine suffered some damage, but if it comes back uncontaminated, does that necessarily mean there was no damage?

Again thanks to everyone for your input, this is a great forum with many knowledgeable and helpful people here.

 

[Coyote machine]

Oil analysis is used by fleets and others looking to know when maintenance and breakdown are likely to happen, and to see wear patterns over time. You'd be better served to do a seanance than oil analysis for what you're looking for. Is there damage as a result of the engine lacking oil- probably. What the extent of the damage is would be near impossible to pinpoint since you have no prior reference. If you had performed an analysis prior to the incident then a test now you'd have something to compare.
You can only set a baseline for the difference between now, and future results. Further determination could only be done by a physical teardown of components or x-ray vision.

 

[CanuckPT]

If I take the engine oil plug out, the key comes out of the ignition switch and they are next to each other on the floorboard.

David

Great suggestion!

 

[Grumpa Wally]

An important detail is whether the engine was operated just prior to the oil change or whether it had set cold for hours before changing the oil. I used to like to change the oil on a cold engine, but it makes more sense to start the engine and circulate some oil over all the engine just before the oil change. Since most engine wear comes from high operating temps and cold start ups, the extra little time it takes the oil pump to pressurize and begin full pumping after an oil change would be less apt to cause wear because the engine parts are coated in freshly pumped oil.

 

[JRobyn]

It is my opinion that you did zero harm. I base this on the theory that despite draining the oil, all of the oil galleys within the engine were still full. Once you started it and the bearings began to turn, it would be much easier for that residual oil to drain off, but the bearing surfaces would still be coated. For how long, I can't really speculate, but 1-2 minutes should be in the "safe" category. Remember that there are LOTS of plain bearings that get nothing but a few drops of oil every year or so. HVAC fan motors, power tool motors, etc.. I admit that I am ignoring the "impact" loading of rod bearings where a pressurized oil film is important. Still think you're good.

 

[newbury]

<snip> Actually, I had thought about running it a bit and changing it again. The machine has only got 120 hours on it to begin with and I've taken good care of it (until now obviously). <snip>

Good idea.
Was that your first oil change in 5 years? Did you filter it or look closely for metal particles?

It would probably be very worth while to get it hot, drain it, filter it and look for metal particles. If it LOOKS bad you can know to be careful so you don't get in a situation, like 2 miles back in the woods, where if the tractor died it would be a royal pain. On the other hand if you never get far from your house, run it till it self destructs.

As other suggest...you need to get a oil analysis done. I use Blackstone Labs....$30. Had engine problems from fuel leaking into #3 cylinder which caused a hydro lok. Its a long story ( 1.5 yrs ago ) but I sent a sample in prior ( 6 hrs on the engine oil ) to getting the cylinder rebuilt. Just changed the oil last month and sent a sample in. The report showed numerous metals in the oil .... which would be normal after a cylinder rebuild. You need to establish a baseline so you can keep track of the engine wear.

Agree with establishing a baseline, but at an average use of maybe 30 hours/year and the next oil change after another 600 hours, 20 years is a long time.

Oil analysis is used by fleets and others looking to know when maintenance and breakdown are likely to happen, and to see wear patterns over time. You'd be better served to do a seanance than oil analysis for what you're looking for. Is there damage as a result of the engine lacking oil- probably. What the extent of the damage is would be near impossible to pinpoint since you have no prior reference. If you had performed an analysis prior to the incident then a test now you'd have something to compare.
You can only set a baseline for the difference between now, and future results. Further determination could only be done by a physical teardown of components or x-ray vision.

I ran oil analysis on my F350 until I established that with my usage pattern and modern oils I could probably go 20K between changes.

An important detail is whether the engine was operated just prior to the oil change or whether it had set cold for hours before changing the oil. <snip>

This is a winner.

I usually get the engine HOT, so hot I it's uncomfortable to handle the Fumoto valve or drain plug. Then let it slow drip to get the last drop. If you had done that I'd be concerned.
If you changed it outside "cold" and had just run it a bit to move it before the change you probably had enough residual oil to keep it lubed for what you did.

 

[csr0831]

Unfortunately, the oil was drained HOT....yep, hard to hold onto the plug hot. It's always been my feeling that it doesn't do a whole lot of good to drain it cold. Anything in the oil, metal particles, dirt, etc. have fallen out of suspension and are laying in the bottom of the pan, where they pretty much stay when it's drained. If it's drained hot there is a better chance they will be removed when the oil comes out. In this case, I agree, it may not have been a good thing at all. I changed the oil at 50 hours initially and it's been changed about four times since then. Even though there are not a lot of hours on it yet, I wont let it go over a year without an oil change. I guess time will

 

[csr0831]

It is my opinion that you did zero harm. I base this on the theory that despite draining the oil, all of the oil galleys within the engine were still full. Once you started it and the bearings began to turn, it would be much easier for that residual oil to drain off, but the bearing surfaces would still be coated. For how long, I can't really speculate, but 1-2 minutes should be in the "safe" category. Remember that there are LOTS of plain bearings that get nothing but a few drops of oil every year or so. HVAC fan motors, power tool motors, etc.. I admit that I am ignoring the "impact" loading of rod bearings where a pressurized oil film is important. Still think you're good.

I hope you are correct!

 

[valkyrie9901]

Run it and use it. After you feel it has had enough time to tell it's condition, change the oil and filter. Then cut the filter open and check for contamination. If there is none you got lucky and if there is a small amount, just use it. My bet is it is alright as these are tough little engines...JB.