Buying used lathe

[musselmark]

I have been looking for a lathe for a while now and recently found 2 for sale locally. One is a 13" Southbend $2400.00 canadian and the other is a King 1440G $2750.00 looks similar to a Birmingham 1440 . Of these 2 which would you buy and why? Thanks for any opinions

 

[firemech]

I have a 1958 Southbend 9a and wouldn't hesitate to recommend the southbend,lots of parts and tooling still available. But a word of caution purchasing any used mill or lathe; check it over thoroughly before purchase. If you're not comfortable checking it out ask someone who is to go with you. Many people have bought clean looking machines only to find they are badly worn or cobbled together from parts of many. Have had no involvement with a King lathe but am always a little scared of the off shore stuff versus the tried and true north american iron.

 

[chriswheeler]

For that much money, I'd keep looking. The king looks like it's been rode hard and not well cared for. The South Bend looks like it's in better condition, but the areas subject to wear need to be examined carefully. Although South Bend lathes are good machines for home use, generally, they do have flat belt drives, threaded chucks and small tapers in the tailstocks that don't hold larger tooling. ( drills, reamers, etc. ) Also note that their tailstocks aren't tanged to hold larger drills. Lathes with threaded chucks don't take cuts in reverse safely. I'd keep looking. My 1440 Birmingham has it's flaws and limits for home and hobby use, but is just barely enough lathe for me at home. Your intended use and projects should help you decide. Guess what I'm saying, think of what you intend to do with it before deciding on what to buy.
Chris
retired machinist

 

[ruffdog]

The MUCH newer King is going to have a better variety of gear choices to match todays tooling. Most old iron does not have the speeds and feeds to handle carbide cutting tools. There is a good chance the King has hardened ways too. Newer lathes will have a better variety of thread pitches they can turn...maybe it even has the metric gears. The King will have a larger main spindle so you can stick the work through the head stock.

 

[CCWKen]

Old Southbend lathes are good. New ones not so much--All cast off-shore and Southbend badged junk. Only the name survived. Check wear on the bed and moving parts but that goes for any lathe.

 

[TMGT]

The SB is at least a slightly newer model based on the feed gearbox and larger handwheels, it might have hardened ways. As was stated parts are fairly easy to come by but will be lacking in speed and feeds.

The other lathe will be more versatile with higher spindle speeds and more threading pitches. It also has the advantage of better chuck mounting as it appears to be a d-1 type cam lock.

The condition is hard to tell from pictures on either, best to go look at them and try them in person.

What tooling is included with either? That can affect how good of a deal it is. I'm sure your area is different but pricing is about inline with my area.

I had an older 13in SB with the top handle gearbox, it did a lot.of work for me but was a bit limited.

I sold it and had a Colchester 13in before getting my 16 in TOS, if you can find a TOS they are stout machines and usually go pretty cheap, I believe there were a lot more imported to Canada then the states due to the cold war.

What is your intended purpose for the lathe?

 

[drivadesl]

I have a South Bend 10"lathe, similar but smaller than the 13". I cant comment much to the other lathe byond whats been said. if this is your first lathe, for home projects, I've read the 13" SB is the perfect lathe. Nothing wrong with a belt drive, which can be a lifesaver if you unintentionally jamb your work. Doing so would allow the belt to just slip, where with the gear driven machine something would snap. It will happen. Also, lots of tooling available for the SB used and on Ebay. I wished I had the 13". Price wise, at $1800 US, that is not a bad price at all, try to talk them down if you can. CHeck if any other tooling included, the cost for different chucks, followers, faceplates, etc add up if not included. Good luck, let us know what you decide.

 

[muddstopper]

I'll say this on which ever lathe you decide on. The actual lathe is the cheap piece of the puzzle. When you go to buy tooling is where you will bust the budget. I wouldnt buy either of those lathes if they didnt come with tooling.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Old Southbend lathes are good. New ones not so much--All cast off-shore and Southbend badged junk. Only the name survived. Check wear on the bed and moving parts but that goes for any lathe.

I have a Southbend Nordic 15" that was built in France. It is a very high quality machine. I did have to make a new ball race for the planetary gear bearing in the tailstock. Did it on our 5 axis Robodrill with some left over PEEK plastic. Also made a new clear sightglass oil level screw in cap.

I'll say this on which ever lathe you decide on. The actual lathe is the cheap piece of the puzzle. When you go to buy tooling is where you will bust the budget. I wouldnt buy either of those lathes if they didnt come with tooling.

This is true about the tooling being a big part of the deal. But I wouldn't let it stop me from buying a lathe. You can find the tooling cheap or reasonably cheap on ebay.

I want a digital read out for mine. DRO is where it's at!

One more thing, most of the smaller lathes just to me seem like hobby toys. Yes, they can whittle and get the job done, but I prefer a 15" machine unless your talking a tool room Hardinge or something high dollar like that. If you only have so much room, and money, the smaller lathes are ok. Much better than no lathe at all maybe.

 

[isaac338]

We have a Craftex at work that's pretty similar to that King and it's a piece of junk - very light, very underpowered, and very poorly made. The detents for the feed selectors are wrong so if you go into one it grinds gears, you have to sort of ride the middle of them. The handwheels are graduated wrong so it feeds further than it says - that one took a bit of figuring to discover.

If the SB isn't totally clapped out I'd take it over the King in a heartbeat - and honestly even if the SB was totally clapped out I'd probably still take it over the King.

That said, for that money you ought to be able to get a much bigger and better lathe with patience (a nice Italian one sold in NS for $1700 or so just the other day). If you have the means to move it yourself don't rule out looking in NB and NS as well.

 

[rokit]

The King is a Taiwanese lathe (that's not necessarily bad). You could get a brand new Taiwanese lathe with no wear issues and a warranty for not much more (depending upon your specific requirements for the machine). Grizzly, Jet, etc.

So, what ARE your requirements?

I looked for a loooong time for a used tractor before I figured out that new was indeed the way to go. YMMV.

 

[muddstopper]

I have a 14in monarch, 24in bed. I find I seldom if ever need the 14in swing, but sometimes that 24in bed comes up short. As long as the material will fit thru the spindle, I can cut as long as I need, but 2ft of bed dont work well on pto shafts. I would think that for the $2400-$2700 price tag of the above mentioned laths, that some basic tooling should be included. Steady rest, live centers, quick change tool holders, cutting tools and boring bars start adding up if you have to buy them all seperate.

 

[TMGT]

That's a good point Mudd brought up, what's the spindle through bore on the two, bigger is better and the old SB weren't known for large spindle bores.

 

[Sonny580]

I have an old SB with a bushel basket of "stuff" with it,--couple of chucks and a (don't know why) but a nice rotary table,---also a short wall mount line shaft that goes from the flat belt on one end to v belt and electric motor on the other. total cost was $700. and the bedways are all tight and good!
I would go for the SB myself! just another opinion! thanks; sonny580

 

[Big Barn]

I have been looking for a lathe for a while now and recently found 2 for sale locally. One is a 13" Southbend $2400.00 canadian and the other is a King 1440G $2750.00 looks similar to a Birmingham 1440 . Of these 2 which would you buy and why? Thanks for any opinions

The price for the SouthBend even if in good shape would seem a little high here on the WEST coast of Canada.

That being said, SB's DO hold their value. I wish I had kept mine. Like everyone else mentioned the amount of tooling included in the sale is a major factor.

It's always been my opinion that if one was buying NEW, the machine (mill, lathe or?) should be included FREE if tool holders and tooling was purchased at time of transaction. But we all know THAT's not gonna happen.

Terry

 

[muddstopper]

Sonny580, I would be interested in the rotary table if you want to get rid of it. PM me if you want to sell it.

 

[jmc]

I have an old SB with a bushel basket of "stuff" with it,--couple of chucks and a (don't know why) but a nice rotary table,...

How big is the rotary table? Maybe if it mounts on the cross slide and it's low enough, they used it to turn spheres, pumpkins* and footballs*.

*pumpkins and footballs are mis-centered spheres...