Tractor Sizing bush hogging acreage

[MarkV]

You can always rent power at less cost and purchase a wide flail shredder new with fewer consequences.

Well Leonz you are obviously a giant fan of flail mowers. It comes out in any mower thread you participate in. Maybe it is a regional thing. I never see a flail mower in my area. There are rotary mowers everywhere. That is enough for me to see what the norm is in my area. And, if everyone is wrong, at least I know it can get a rotary mower serviced locally.

Every setting has different needs. One answer does not fit all. I tend to go with what the locals do. They have generally work out what works best given the local conditions.

MarkV

 

[leonz]

I do not intend to to infer that anyone is wrong with regard to rotary cutters.


In the flail mower I have found that they are quiet, safer to operate and use, and more efficient and in Alamo Industrial's case for example they have a huge number of units used in minicipal service which is why I suggested the hunt for a municipal mowing tractor with three mowers having low hours and lots of life left in them to use and easy to repair.



I don't have my hand in any ones pockets; it takes less work to make a rotary cutter than it does to build a flail mower, the dealer has to spend less money to purchase them for resale and they cost less for the end user to purchase depending on the size and horsepower required for width of cut.

I always explain that the OSHA folks have a huge number of incidents and fatalities involving rotary cutter and mowers and related property damage incidents which have been mentioned in the attachment section of the web page here as well.

The flail mower has a huge advantage as it makes much less noise and is the mower of choice in many municipal mowing operations because of noise control regulations in europe which is much more stringent in the control of noise pollution in parks and rural areas requiring mowing.

 

[montelatici]

Flail motors have zero advantage over a rotary cutter (brush hog) for a private landowner cutting rough fields.

If you're cutting along heavily traveled roads and there is some danger of that 1 in thousand rock hitting a car, then just maybe you might prefer to buy a flail mower at twice to three times the price of an equivalent size rotary mower.

Unless you have money to burn and don't mind doing much more maintenance yourself, then just maybe.

Plus, I can assure you a flail mower won't cut the saplings I sometimes have to cut down with my rotary cutter (Woods) because I've waited a year or two to cut a field.

 

[leonz]

Flail mowers have zero advantage over a rotary cutter (brush hog) for a private landowner cutting rough fields.

"this is incorrect as:

1.the mower is quieter in operation
a the mower has more available horse power per inch of cut with the the belt drive and rotor asembly.
2. the mower is shorter in length
3. the flail mower cuts the brush and saplings into much smaller pieces which degrade into compost much quicker.
a. the flailmower operates at a higher rate of speed when slicing brush
4. wet brush can be mowed much more easily with out plugging or wrapping.
5. a flailmower is much more forgicing if it contacts and objetc as the knive blade or blades folds back if it contacts an object and passes over it.
a rotary cutter can hit something and bend or break the cutting blade and eject it as was mentioned in the link provided by one of the members this year in Tennessee where it occured pierced a homes exterior wall and the blade landed near a crib where an infant was sleeping and one of the residents was also in the home."

If you're cutting along heavily traveled roads and there is some danger of that 1 in thousand rock hitting a car, then just maybe you might prefer to buy a flail mower at twice to three times the price of an equivalent size rotary mower.

Unless you have money to burn and don't mind doing much more maintenance yourself, then just maybe.

"Its never a case of money to burn involving the purchase of a flail mower- which I have labored to mention many times; reading iron horses horses first and last use of a rotary cutter is but one of many examples
if a knive is dulled it can be flipped over to expose a second cutting surface or changed if the individual slicer knive is broken".

"The rental of a high horse power tractor and the purchase of even a used flail shredder in wide width will allow the management of the area quickly if desired is a more financially efficient use of ones working capital if the land is not actively farmed for profit and loss."



"Thier is less maintenance with a flailmower and the knives or hammers are easy to change if damaged or broken and cost less per foot of cut to purchase for replacement"





Plus, I can assure you a flail mower won't cut the saplings I sometimes have to cut down with my rotary cutter (Woods) because I've waited a year or two to cut a field.

" Many flailmowers and a lot of boom mounted flail mowers and rear mounted flailmowers mow down a lot of saplings in many cases using both hardened grass slicer knives and or hammer knives. A wide swath flail shredder chopper has hardened knives as the shredder is used much closer to the ground surface than a rotary cutter and will chop sugar cane anmd corn stalks and stubble as well. ".

The entire wieght of a flail shredders rotor adds to the cutting speed an ability to delive rthis energy tot he knives used in a narrow and wide width in cut flail chopper shredder for the end user.


Renting power and buying a new or used flail shredder chopper will save money and the job can be done quickly with a few days work and tractor rental in one period where all the brush can be chopped and shredded to the ground once reducing the invasive plants ability to regenerate and require even less fuel the next time it is done with the same high horse powe rental tractor.


Why work harder, spend money and working capital you dont have to spend if the land is unused?

 

[Code54]

I have a small 4' brush hog I bought for 450 new. There are times I decide to mow and area that has not been mowed and the hog will take down a 3" tree if needed - not pretty and darn noisy but within a minute or two it is mulch. A flail is nice but does not fit everyones needs and budgets.
For the area he is trying to cut it is worth hitting a local farm auction and see what big mowers are available and see what kind of costs are involved. There are a LOT of bat wings and hogs floating around that can be had for a VERY reasonable price. One that would allow the OP to get a slighter larger tractor and a bigger mower all for the same cost.
I can see getting the tractor new but you may want to look used for a mower. In our area you see a lot of lightly used mowers for about 40% of the cost new.
Good luck

 

[montelatici]

" Many flailmowers and a lot of boom mounted flail mowers and rear mounted flailmowers mow down a lot of saplings in many cases using both hardened grass slicer knives and or hammer knives. A wide swath flail shredder chopper has hardened knives as the shredder is used much closer to the ground surface than a rotary cutter and will chop sugar cane anmd corn stalks and stubble as well. ".

The entire wieght of a flail shredders rotor adds to the cutting speed an ability to delive rthis energy tot he knives used in a narrow and wide width in cut flail chopper shredder for the end user.


Renting power and buying a new or used flail shredder chopper will save money and the job can be done quickly with a few days work and tractor rental in one period where all the brush can be chopped and shredded to the ground once reducing the invasive plants ability to regenerate and require even less fuel the next time it is done with the same high horse powe rental tractor.


Why work harder, spend money and working capital you dont have to spend if the land is unused?

Sorry buddy, you will never convince me that outside of very specific situations, a flail mower makes any sense over a rotary cutter. Why would you want to fool with belts, knives etc. when cutting down rough fields. Whacking down saplings with a gear drive brush hog seems so much easier to me.

 

[MarkV]

Sorry buddy, you will never convince me that outside of very specific situations, a flail mower makes any sense over a rotary cutter. Why would you want to fool with belts, knives etc. when cutting down rough fields. Whacking down saplings with a gear drive brush hog seems so much easier to me.

Thats me also. I have nothing against flail mowers. They have become all the rage here on the forum. I just can't see the advantage myself. My rotary mower does not have belts and only 2 blades to worry about. I really don't care what the cut looks like in the back pasture. If I needed a finish cut I would use a finish mower. For me it is all about knocking it down one or two times a year. I also live way to far away from others to worry about hitting the neighbors place. Guess it all depends on your given situation.

MarkV

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thats me also. I have nothing against flail mowers. They have become all the rage here on the forum. I just can't see the advantage myself. My rotary mower does not have belts and only 2 blades to worry about. I really don't care what the cut looks like in the back pasture. If I needed a finish cut I would use a finish mower. For me it is all about knocking it down one or two times a year. I also live way to far away from others to worry about hitting the neighbors place. Guess it all depends on your given situation.

MarkV

MarkV, I agree with you. This is one of our problems here on TBN. Some of us only look at what we personally know and forget that there is another world out there that is different than what we know in our own neck of the woods.

 

[powerstroke444e]

I have used both at batwing bushhog type and a 16' flail mower for set a side crp ground and would use the flail, but the flail was on a 175hp tractor and I could pull it down on real heavy grass and brush, but it took alot of hp, but didnot leave the trash that a batwing mower left.
With a 200 acre field I would plant some thing that you would not need to mow all the time. In my area we use controled burns to take care of lots of the wildlife plots and prairie grass fields.
With controled burns you would only have to mow around the edges.

 

[Johnbro]

Well, more details about your specific situation would help. But all things being equal, if it was me and I had to cut 200 acres, I'd let someone else do it and pay me for the privilege. By that I mean I'd consider fencing and letting people graze it with sheep or goats. they will eat everything, return the material in compostable form to the soil, and not compact where they walk the way horses or cattle will. I haven't hitched up my bush hog since we got our first batch of lambs. Don't miss mowing the pasture at all!

 

[leonz]

More fun on the mowing front for our skeptical inquirers
regarding flail mowers and how well they work in liht to
heavy brush.

 

[leonz]

Sorry about the typo; to late to correct it, Whoopsie!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

leonz, I don't know if anyone is doubting you, it is just that heavy duty flails are big money. I know that I have a very heavy duty unit, 102" cut and it will obliterate 3"-4" brush. If I would have bought it new, it would have been HUGE money.
And as you probably know, you can't count on auctions from government entities to have what you need when you need it. So for him to purchase a big flail that would accommodate him, I would guess that it could cost close to what he can purchase a tractor and bush hog for.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Who's flail mower? and they are not "special!!

Using one the brands of flail mowers that Ken Sweet carries or a five foot Caroni with the B Rotor you could mow two acres or more per day easily with a smaller Grand L; your dealers not helping you with your wallet in my opinion.

Once the flail mower is up to the maximum rotor speed at 540 RPM rated engine speed AND KEPT THERE its shredding and slicing grass and brush at over one hundred miles and hour and leaves little to see.

See, thats the problem. With a 5' rotary cutter 4MPH is sedate with 40 HP and cuts an acre an hr. Whereas with a 5' Flail you must slow down to a point you only cut 2 or 3 acres per day. It takes more power to cut the grass up fine.
larry

 

[MtnViewRanch]

See, thats the problem. With a 5' rotary cutter 4MPH is sedate with 40 HP and cuts an acre an hr. Whereas with a 5' Flail you must slow down to a point you only cut 2 or 3 acres per day. It takes more power to cut the grass up fine.
larry

Larry, your joking right? Your not actually thinking that it takes all day to cut 3 acres. At 1 mph it would be 6 hours, I doubt that one would have to go that slow.

I'm still hoping that you're just joking around. :confused2:

 

[SPYDERLK]

I was referring to the quoted post.:confused3:
larry

 

[leonz]

The thing is a a flail shredder chopper of any size has a huge width
of cut and taking 88 feet per minute and lets say a used 20 foot
flail chopper shredder in good condition you can cover:

EDIT-the flail shredders have very wide scoop knives that are made
of hardened steel in most cases and are very inexpensive including
the mounting hardware per knive.

A swath of ground that is 20 feet wide and every minute you shred

88 feet by 20 feet=1,760 square feet per minute and in sixty minutes
you shred 105,600 square feet to the ground at one mile per hour.

In 4 hours your shredding 400,000+ 20,000+2,400=

422,400 square feet which is divided by 43,560 square feet per acre which
is 9.7 acres per 4 hour period.


When its knocked down the first time there will be little left to return in
growth as it is at ground level and any resulting growth is something that
will be knocked down quickly when mowing again at a faster speed.


A wider flail chopper will of course cover more ground per minute so even a
good flail chopper used in cotton or sugar cane guaranteed by the machinery
dealer or from a farm auction will serve the purpose and he can invest in a
small mower to do the lttle area around the home if he wants to for much
less money if he rents his power months in advance.


Renting power for a month a year will save him money and he will be able to
purchase a wider flail chopper to operate it and or a smaller flail mower from
Ken Sweet or a Caroni from agrisupply for a smaller tractor like a
BX2660

The last time I looked at tractorhouse as an example there were at least 80
pages of flail shredders and that was 2 months ago.

 

[montelatici]

"The thing is a a flail shredder chopper of any size has a huge width
of cut "

What the heck does that mean? Leonz, I think you are going overboard on this flail mower thing. A 5 foot flail has the same width of cut as a 5 foot rotary mower, trust me.

Plus, with a rotary mower you don't have to replace knive, you hardly have to grease them and they have no belts to replace. In fact, they really need no maintenance.

 

[leonz]

Just to clarify AGAIN:

The entire compliment of grass slicer knive edge length for any flailmower except in the use of a hammer type knife IS longer in total cutting edge than the cutting edge length for a rotary cutter or finish mower

SO assuming if a rotary cutter has a five foot width it has 2 blades- each with a total cutting edge OF 30 inches EACH it only presents 30 inches of available cutting edge per rotation of the arbor per revolution


SO in a flailmowers case;


Using a finish mower rotor with 4 rows of staggered knives in my example

The number of knives is 112 knives the grass slicing cutting edge is 1.5 inches in length from what i remember. the 56 pairs knives have a total grass slicing surface edge length of 168 inches of available cutting edge exposed to gras and brush equivalent to 14 feet of cutting edge for a rotary cutter -
not including ther other 14 FEET of grass slicer cutting edge on the other side of the blade that allows you to simply flip the blade pairs when dull to provide the end user with a fresh cutting edge in my case by simply sliding the spring tensioned knive hanger to one side to remove them and flip the new fresh blade for work


The same applies to both a 2 row rotor or a three row flail mower rotor as the gras slicer knives overlap when slicing grass and brush.

SO to recap in MY 48 inch flail mowers case;

56 knive hangers
112 grass slicer knives
168 inches of sharpened grass slicer edge on one edge = 14 feet
168 inches of sharpened grass slicer edge on the opposite edge =14 feet
336 inches in total cutting edge surface


Each knive has 3 inches of slicing edge in TOTAL-front and back


The grass slicer knives have a total 336 inches of slicing edge or 28 feet of slicing edge in total.

A flail shredder chopper with 2-3 rows of scoop knives has an individual knive that may be 1.3 inches to 5 inches wide depending upon the builder and the models use for crop shredding or rough mowing.



A four foot rotary cutter in the example HAS only a total of 48 inches of cutting edge surface.
with the 2 cutter blades exposing ONE 24 inch cutting edge per revolution as the prime mover advances with
the towed implement as the following cutting edge rotates behind the previous edge to take its place.



I hope this further clarifies the issue for everyone.

I have to pour the coal out of my stocking and into my boiler now
as my fuel tank is empty AGAIN and I pay for the privilage of automatic delivery (in my dreams I guess) as this is the fifth time in 2 years I have no kerosene fuel.

Time for a tank trap to secure diesel fuel from the county snow plows I guess (too messy with a tiger pit or snare).


Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

 

[two_bit_score]

Hello - I am looking for a proper fit for my scenario
mow 1.5 acres regularly (weekly) during summer
mow back 200 acres about 3 to 4 times per year (high grass/weeds) depending on rain/drought.
flat terrain- on coast waterfront- no trees or bushes- can develop tall grass/weeds
I want to store on site in a 12x27 foot garage with 8 foot high door
local dealer suggest kubota 5100f with bush hog sq84 (7 foot) mower for cheapest option and canopy. Does this sound reasonable? Price point? Mowing time? Appreciate the feedback as I have never mowed this size acreage. I may need to contract out part of it depending on the rain and my time available to get to it.

Many thanks for your replies.

Contract it out to someone who will be using a large batwing mower.

Can you bale it and sell it? Economically, that would be best but you should look into contracting it out also.