Bucket rolled backwards

[Deere Dude]

I had to replace one seal and found the nut was half spun off, in other words was not tightened securely. I decided to take the other cylinder apart even though it was good and that nun was also loose. Then they got Locktited on. Quality goes in before the name goes on, no doubt. Hope your is that simple.

 

[rScotty]

Well I started taking the hoses off & noticed the left drains no oil so I pushed the rod up & oil shot out telling me it seemed to hold pressure.

I remembered the right cylinder draining out yesterday. So I left that one and went to the right. When I took it off I could hear something rattling.

The rod pulled straight out of the cylinder, threads were stripped.

Now the nut & packer is still in the cylinder with no idea how to fish out??? This keeps getting better & better. Heading to JD place to price cylinder & get options on what to do.

View attachment 636507

Let us know what the JD dealer says. You always have the option of going to surpluscenter.com and buying cylinders. Got to make sure of ends and fittings, though.
Sometimes a replacement set is a better way to go than a rebuild.
rScotty

 

[Kfbeal]

Is there an easy way to remove the gland? I removed the snap ring, inserted the plastic insert into the slot but no way to get it out?

I’ve rebuilt these a few times in the past & had to hit the rod end to remove it. Hopefully I’m not the reason this failed.

 

[Kfbeal]

Let us know what the JD dealer says. You always have the option of going to surpluscenter.com and buying cylinders. Got to make sure of ends and fittings, though.
Sometimes a replacement set is a better way to go than a rebuild.
rScotty

The rod price ranges from $200/$800 depending on the cylinder.

The cylinder cost showed to be $700. Evidently they have multiple cylinder types.

They said the hydraulic shop can fix the threads, I may try that this week.

 

[ovrszd]

Is there an easy way to remove the gland? I removed the snap ring, inserted the plastic insert into the slot but no way to get it out?

I’ve rebuilt these a few times in the past & had to hit the rod end to remove it. Hopefully I’m not the reason this failed.

I'm struggling to understand this?

In my small world, the gland is the o-ringed slug inside the cylinder. It has a hole in the center that the rod goes thru. Then the nut is applied to fasten it to the rod.

How about a picture so we understand what you are dealing with? There are a couple different ways the cylinder is assembled. Some are simply held together by a snap-ring. Some are threaded together. Not sure which you have? Maybe someone can confirm what you have?

 

[ptsg]

I'm struggling to understand this?

In my small world, the gland is the o-ringed slug inside the cylinder. It has a hole in the center that the rod goes thru. Then the nut is applied to fasten it to the rod.

How about a picture so we understand what you are dealing with? There are a couple different ways the cylinder is assembled. Some are simply held together by a snap-ring. Some are threaded together. Not sure which you have? Maybe someone can confirm what you have?

To me this is the gland:



And this the piston:

 

[ovrszd]

To me this is the gland:

View attachment 636586View attachment 636589

And this the piston:

View attachment 636588View attachment 636587

Thanks for the clarity.

So your gland is either held in place with a snap ring or screws in. The snap ring usually spins into the barrel by turning the gland. The screw in type comes out by spinning the gland.

Again,,,, pictures would be great.

Or,,,,,, go to Kubota parts and attach a pic of the parts involved in the cylinder. They will show us how it's assembled.

 

[RickB]

To me this is the gland:

View attachment 636586View attachment 636589

And this the piston:

View attachment 636588View attachment 636587

It’s that way in my world as well.

 

[Kfbeal]

This is on a JD 512 loader. There is an external snap ring keeping the gland from going into the cylinder. To remove, you drive the gland in & insert a plastic ring (in seal kit) in a groove inside the cylinder where the external snap ring on the gland locks in.

Here’s a pic from when I’ve rebuilt these before.

 

[wdchyd]

If an inside puller is not avail to you there痴 a way to pop that gland head out using hyd force. First make sure retainer ring is out (and use the plastic groove filler if needed), then cap off both cylinder ports, then stand up cyl barrel on the floor and fill with water within 1-2 of top, insert hyd rod end and slam it with a good sized dead blow hammer. If all goes well the gland will pop out

 

[rScotty]

I've been following along. After a few years of tractoring you will get more comfortable with hydraulics. All part of the tractor hobby. The nice thing about hydraulic cylinders is that they are usually simple to repair and real satisfying to go from something barely working at all to something working like new - all for not much money.

And if hydraulic repair doesn't ring your chimes = most rural towns that have a tractor dealer also have a small hydraulic repair shop. It's often a one person small shop.We've got a good one locally. They will rebuild a cylinder so reasonably its hardly worth doing it yourself.

The 512 is a nice little loader, and very popular....but it's not very heavily built. Although to be fair, even an industrial loader isn't going to stand up to pushing forward with the lip pointing down. On the plus side, if you google the JD 512 loader you will find plenty of illustrations of parts, people selling kits, & articles on parts and upgrades.

Sometimes it's a better deal to just upgrade the cylinder. Especially so if the rods are bent or the cylinder is bulged. Aftermarket cylinders are surprisingly inexpensive. You can get thicker cylinder walls & larger diameter rods & if you keep the inside areas the same or close it will work the same. I'm a fan of bushed ends, and of end caps/glands that unscrew to replace the outer dust seal and O ring. Many cylinders use universal parts. The biggest problem I've found with aftermarket cylinders is getting one that has the input and output ports pointing the right way to fit the hoses. There are common adapters for threads and bushings.

rScotty

 

[davedj1]

If and when you get the gland/piston out, install new O-rings and gland I wouldn't hesitate to re use those threads, run a die over them, add some loctite of you favorite color (I would go with red) and put it back together, I'm betting it will last a good long time if you don't repeat what you did to damage it.

 

[TractorGuy]

This is on a JD 512 loader. There is an external snap ring keeping the gland from going into the cylinder. To remove, you drive the gland in & insert a plastic ring (in seal kit) in a groove inside the cylinder where the external snap ring on the gland locks in.

Here痴 a pic from when I致e rebuilt these before.

View attachment 636618View attachment 636619

Get a piece of smaller diameter rod longer than the piston rod. Weld a bolt to the end that will accept a washer just a little smaller than the threaded end of the piston rod. Put the washer on and double nut the bolt. Feed it up through the piston and let the washer drop down to grab the piston. Use that as a slide hammer to remove the gland and piston. If you can find a rod long enough with a threaded end or all thread you can skip the welding part.

I installed generic cross cylinders on my old 420 loader. You may have to compromise on the exact length or stroke a little but for the difference in price it was worth doing for me.

 

[Kfbeal]

Thanks to everyone for the replies & ideas. Tried the hydraulic method but the caps I picked up didn’t fit on the cylinder to cap off the ports so I’ll try again tomorrow.

We have some large all thread I can use if I can find a washer to fit. That’s a good idea.

Reckon I can use a die over the threads or need to get someone professional to do it?

 

[Kfbeal]

Get a piece of smaller diameter rod longer than the piston rod. Weld a bolt to the end that will accept a washer just a little smaller than the threaded end of the piston rod. Put the washer on and double nut the bolt. Feed it up through the piston and let the washer drop down to grab the piston. Use that as a slide hammer to remove the gland and piston. If you can find a rod long enough with a threaded end or all thread you can skip the welding part.

I installed generic cross cylinders on my old 420 loader. You may have to compromise on the exact length or stroke a little but for the difference in price it was worth doing for me.

Should I have to replace a cylinder, even in the future, where did you pick your cylinders up at?

 

[TractorGuy]

Should I have to replace a cylinder, even in the future, where did you pick your cylinders up at?

I ordered mine from Magistar or something like that. They are made in Ukraine. Look at the USA made Prince brand cylinders and compare to your cylinders first. They sell them through Surplus Center and other dealers. Prices seem to fluctuate.

 

[rScotty]

I installed generic cross cylinders on my old 420 loader. You may have to compromise on the exact length or stroke a little but for the difference in price it was worth doing for me.

I remember that project you did. I did much the same thing on my old JD 46 QA loader. The 46 loader project was pre-internet, so I had the local hydraulic shop make the new cylinders from scratch. The charge for making cylinders was much the same as buying them at the Surplus Center today, but the dual spool valve I bought at the same time was kind of expensive. Surplus Center is good for comparing prices. I tend to go for brands I recognize - particularly for valves.

On your 420 project .... does it still leak down? Did you ever decide if the leak-down was in the cylinders or the valve?
rScotty

 

[wdchyd]

Reckon I can use a die over the threads or need to get someone professional to do it?

If the threads look good, go for it. If the threads are trashed you likely need to either build up thread area with weld, machine and rethread.....or have new hyd rods made

 

[4570Man]

Would there be any problem with putting the mostly stripped nuts on and welding them? Sure you can’t ever take it apart again but the rods are pretty much junk anyway if it doesn’t work.

 

[ovrszd]

Yep. I'd do that before buyin a new cylinder.