jigs_n_fixtures
Veteran Member
You would connect the negative to the frame or block near the starter, or a starter mounting bolt. The positive goes on the solenoid positive where the lead from the battery connects.
Boosting question.
- Thread starter corey9212
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MossRoad
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
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- 66,201
- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
Well, you never gave that info in the original post, so we were just taking shots at it with "most likely" options for investigation.
jigs_n_fixtures
Veteran Member
You might be able to get it turning over by towing if it has a manual transmission. Hook it up in high gear and tow it a little ways to get the block warmed up. Then do it again with the fuel on.
dodge man
Super Star Member
I still think you can get a battery for less, that’s probably a JD price. Yes they would be heavy so I understand needing someone to do it for you. I’m not sure though why the problem with jump starting is going on. There are some good ideas presented.
mjw357
Platinum Member
If you are removing the cables from the tractor battery and attaching external battery/jump packs, yes. If the tractor battery is still attached to the tractor’s battery cables, the bad battery is still in the circuit.
OP
corey9212
Platinum Member
It’s an IVT transmission so sadly that won’t work as far as my knowledge.
I’m definitely doing some testing today to see but like Hoss710 said I’m sure it has an internal short which like mjw357 mentioned the bad battery is still in the circuit so it’s basically a big resistor, my truck had the same problem and once I replaced the batteries and I had to boost it boosted easily.
Ok that makes sense, thank you for clarifying that for me.
I have to fire the tractor up today so I’m going to give that a try today, my truck had a short in its battery but it was intermittent so when it was tested it wouldn’t fail the test but when put to actual use it would never work and when it was removed from the circuit it instantly failed the test and the truck was able to be boosted, I was glad it worked but it had me scratching my head for a long time trying to figure out why it worked that way.
dodge man
Super Star Member
If you Ram is a diesel it has 2 batteries also, just one can be bad but they say replace in pairs.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
I just looked up the specs for that tractor. Specs show a 1400 CCA battery. I crossed ref that battery spec, and that battery sells for about $285 US .
WM75Guy
Elite Member
I have never had any luck just changing 1 battery. Before long I have to change both the new and the old battery. The charging system charges both equally, so they need to be the same strength.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
Ive always replaced both at same times also.
OP
corey9212
Platinum Member
So definitely the battery was the issue, it was bulged quite a bit and frozen solid, the mechanic replaced it and the tractor fires right up easily and now recognizes when a booster is installed (you can see the voltage change)
gsganzer
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2003
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- Denton, TX
- Tractor
- L3800 w/FEL and BH77, BX 2200 w/FEL and MMM
On my NOCO GB150, I have to hit an override function if the battery I'm jumping is too low. You might see if that's your issue.
Egon
Epic Contributor
Just a note: frozen batteries can explode when boosted.
Have you cleaned the terminals? Spent an hour helping a guy try to start his boat and he insisted the terminals were clean. I finally said just humor me and remove the clamps and scrape them with a knife which was all that was available so he did. Reconnected them and it started very nicely. They looked perfectly clean but as it turned out not so much.
GrumpyL5030
Member
This is gonna sound absurd, but it's not an old (antique) style tractor with reverse polarity is it?
A couple young lads wanted to borrow my dad's old farmal cub a few years ago and tried jump starting it like a normal car or newer tractor with negative ground. They never got it going and just fried the voltage regulator. I never understood why the old tractors were wired positive ground. Musta been a British thing.
Good luck. Try to stay warm.
Todd727
Gold Member
Read the whole thread before posting. It got it fixed, before Christmas...
jiggseob
Member
It sounds like your battery is fudged.
Every time your battery is discharged and re-charged, electrons are moving from the electrolyte to the lead and zinc plates in the battery. That process is not perfect, and each time electricity moves, a small amount of sulphate (basically a salt crystal) is deposited on the plates. The "deeper" the discharge, the more salt crystals accumulate on the plates. When your battery is at 100% charge and you hit the key and pull several hundred amps through the starter, and even though the engine starts in a few seconds, the battery is discharged down to say 95%. A few minutes of operation and the alternator replenishes that 5% charge that had been drawn off. A normal battery, starter, and charging system will go through a few thousand of these cycles before that sulpation salt accumulation occurs.
Everything changes at 40 below. Chemical reaction in the battery is vastly slowed, and instead of 100% down to 95% during a start cycle, its 100% down to 50%. Sulphation and battery performance degradation occurs much faster.
And if a battery goes down to say 5% charge, the electrolyte will freeze, swell, and break the plates inside the battery loose from their mounts, and possibly short them against one another. That probably won't happen across the whole battery, but just one cell, and the sign of that is one (of the six) cells or segments in a battery getting hot while on the charger or hooked to a boost.
When hooking up the booster cables the dead-battery unit should be hooked up first, its that dead battery that is taking and giving up a charge, and in doing so is "gassing off" potentially explosive gas. All sparking and arcing should be done far away from that. Have the booster vehicle running, with low electrical load in that vehicle (heater fan on low, lights off, heated seats and rear window defogger off) so that the alternator in the booster vehicle does not get over-jolted. The last of the connections to make is the negative cable to the booster vehicle, preferrably to a bare-metal part of the engine or frame brace.
As the last connection is made, observe the size of the "connection spark". If its full-on welding, you probably have the cables backwards, check and re-check. A small spark is normal. No spark probably means your battery is "not taking a charge" and is fudged.
Allow the booster connection to charge the dead-battery for a few minutes before attempting to start. Remember that the booster cables are connecting with just a tiny point of copper to the battery cable or frame brace, and that tiny point of copper can only carry maybe 50 amps. And that presumes your booster cables are actually copper, not some mystery-metal plated with copper-like substance. The point is the cable from the battery to the solenoid to your starter is thick conductive copper, the connections are ring connectors under big bolts, and the ground is certain. Connected booster cables and those tiny connection points have a hard time carrying the several hundred amps of current needed to spin over that 6140 at 40 below.
If the tractor is computerized - I think a 6140 is - a battery not taking a charge is dangerous to boost. You hook up cables to booster vehicle, and system voltage is above computer-operating voltage of ~10 volts, the computer turns on, boots up, and tries to run the engine and the tractor. Then you hit crank and connect several hundred amps of starter load, those tiny booster cable connection points heat up and smoke and stop conducting, and voltage drops and computer shuts off. With computer off, starter goes off, voltage goes up computer comes on, etc. This on-off-on-off scenario is not good for that tractor computer, and computer smoke is possible if not likely.
You do not want to find out the cost of computer smoke on your 6140.
Put in a new battery.
Every time your battery is discharged and re-charged, electrons are moving from the electrolyte to the lead and zinc plates in the battery. That process is not perfect, and each time electricity moves, a small amount of sulphate (basically a salt crystal) is deposited on the plates. The "deeper" the discharge, the more salt crystals accumulate on the plates. When your battery is at 100% charge and you hit the key and pull several hundred amps through the starter, and even though the engine starts in a few seconds, the battery is discharged down to say 95%. A few minutes of operation and the alternator replenishes that 5% charge that had been drawn off. A normal battery, starter, and charging system will go through a few thousand of these cycles before that sulpation salt accumulation occurs.
Everything changes at 40 below. Chemical reaction in the battery is vastly slowed, and instead of 100% down to 95% during a start cycle, its 100% down to 50%. Sulphation and battery performance degradation occurs much faster.
And if a battery goes down to say 5% charge, the electrolyte will freeze, swell, and break the plates inside the battery loose from their mounts, and possibly short them against one another. That probably won't happen across the whole battery, but just one cell, and the sign of that is one (of the six) cells or segments in a battery getting hot while on the charger or hooked to a boost.
When hooking up the booster cables the dead-battery unit should be hooked up first, its that dead battery that is taking and giving up a charge, and in doing so is "gassing off" potentially explosive gas. All sparking and arcing should be done far away from that. Have the booster vehicle running, with low electrical load in that vehicle (heater fan on low, lights off, heated seats and rear window defogger off) so that the alternator in the booster vehicle does not get over-jolted. The last of the connections to make is the negative cable to the booster vehicle, preferrably to a bare-metal part of the engine or frame brace.
As the last connection is made, observe the size of the "connection spark". If its full-on welding, you probably have the cables backwards, check and re-check. A small spark is normal. No spark probably means your battery is "not taking a charge" and is fudged.
Allow the booster connection to charge the dead-battery for a few minutes before attempting to start. Remember that the booster cables are connecting with just a tiny point of copper to the battery cable or frame brace, and that tiny point of copper can only carry maybe 50 amps. And that presumes your booster cables are actually copper, not some mystery-metal plated with copper-like substance. The point is the cable from the battery to the solenoid to your starter is thick conductive copper, the connections are ring connectors under big bolts, and the ground is certain. Connected booster cables and those tiny connection points have a hard time carrying the several hundred amps of current needed to spin over that 6140 at 40 below.
If the tractor is computerized - I think a 6140 is - a battery not taking a charge is dangerous to boost. You hook up cables to booster vehicle, and system voltage is above computer-operating voltage of ~10 volts, the computer turns on, boots up, and tries to run the engine and the tractor. Then you hit crank and connect several hundred amps of starter load, those tiny booster cable connection points heat up and smoke and stop conducting, and voltage drops and computer shuts off. With computer off, starter goes off, voltage goes up computer comes on, etc. This on-off-on-off scenario is not good for that tractor computer, and computer smoke is possible if not likely.
You do not want to find out the cost of computer smoke on your 6140.
Put in a new battery.
Gord Baker
Platinum Member
Possibly a 2 person job as someone has likely to sit on the seat, press brake, (emerg. brake off) give it some fuel (depending on make and model, pulling the shutoff disconnects pump and electrical I believe)
while the other person takes the + lead and does a quick clamp to the big post from the battery on the starter. This bypasses the Solenoid and safety switches.
