Big Stump Removal Project Options

Cityboyfarmer · Jul 24, 2005

I am getting contractor bids to remove 20-25 acres of Loblolly pine stumps. Most are in the 12-16" diamater range with a few 24" or larger. One guy who had committed to do the job on a hourly basis per machine, (loader & excavator) disappeared on me so I am getting several other bids to see what I can come up with.

I did a TBN search and read everything I could find on stump removal, and the thought crossed my mind that maybe I could rent a big 4wd backhoe with a tooth bucket and see what I could do with it. Backhoe rentals here run $255 per day; $725 per week and $1680 per month. I could have a lot of fun...er...do a lot of work with a backhoe for a month /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif or at least I think I could. What do you guys think? What can I reasonably expect to accomplish with a backhoe? How much dirt can I expect to move with the tooth bucket? If I remember correctly the BH rental will be a JD 310G.

Also while searching for stumping info, I found a really cool equipment info site Here

Now one of those machines would do the trick!

PineRidge · Jul 24, 2005

Yes you could do it with a backhoe and lots of time but a good sized excavator could do the same job in just a fraction of the time. When we were putting a pond on our property we cut all the trees ourselves and left the stumps. When the excavator rolled in he popped the stumps out of the ground like a dentist pulls a tooth. He had it done in a matter of hours not days.

The picture shows how easy it is.

Taylortractornut · Jul 24, 2005

I do this kind of work every day and have so for the last 10 years. Id either hire out a contractor with a PC300 Komatsu or 320 sized Cat excavator. or other similar sixed ecavator and maybe a D7 orD8 with a stump blade or both. The excavator would be the fastes and on the larger stumps would leave less of a hole. I cleared 4 acres of24 to 36 inch pinstumps with an old 75 Ford backhoe when i was 17. Took 6 months of spare time.
An excavator has so much more weight and power than a TLB. the 360degree rotation is also great for working in a wide sweep. I helped clear 170 acres of stumps on a cut over. I could dig up 30 to 40 stumps an hour and windrow them and the brush. We burnt some but the rest was put through a portable tubgrinder. In your area theyre maybe someone that will take your stumps with a stump splitter on and excavator. They look like a big pair of pliers and split the stump and pull it out. they have a badkfill blade to fill i nthe hole afterwards. They usually come with a tub grinding company. Ive been on several jobs where they took stumps for no charge to grind for fuel and Turpentine production.

turnkey4099 · Jul 24, 2005

All things being equal, I personally would steer clear of an hourly rate for a job like that. Awful easy to build time into that type of a contract.

Harry K

DannyD · Jul 24, 2005

NEVER touch an hourly rate on a job like this. Get a firm and complete cost upfront!

Working in a building a couple of years ago installing the wiring for a computer system. Electrician is there, working also. I get all my wiring in, tested mounted, everything ready for drywall. Come back later that month, he has taken it all out, run conduit, put it all back in with his junk connectors. I was all over him on this, he stated his boss told him to jerk mine out, put in the pipe and rewire it.........they were on time and materials. I not only let his boss know how big a jack **** he was I told the building super about his "indescretion" to cheating.

dynamike · Jul 24, 2005

Maybe you should think about a stump grinder. "Not a small one" I developed a piece of property about 5 years ago. We cut down 225 trees, I sold the saw logs, cut tons of firewood, chipped all the brush. Then I got a clearing company to grind the stumps. They did them all in one day and it cost me about 1200 bucks. They ground them all at least a foot below the surface. They used a large excavator with a stump grinder attachment. It was a real animal. I think if you dig all them out you will be burning for years.

Cityboyfarmer · Jul 24, 2005

By my estimate, there are about 200 stumps per acre, times 25 acres = 5,000 stumps /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

So assuming $1200 for 250 stumps that would be $24,000 /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Nope. Won't be stump grinding.

I'll look into the cost of renting a big excavator on Monday.

Heres a photo of the piled up limbs to give you an idea of the size of this project.

Cityboyfarmer · Jul 24, 2005

In the photo in the post above, for reference, note the power pole and the big oak tree. There is another sizable pile of limbs that you cannot see to the left.

This photo is of the same area as above before all the trees were cut to give you an idea of the root density.

EddieWalker · Jul 24, 2005

The first thing folks told me when I started asking around for loggers is that it will cost as much, or more, to clear up the mess after they leave, then you'll get from the trees you sell.

I don't know if that's true or not, but it sounds like something to be cautious about.

I have a Ford 555E, wich is the same size as a JD 310, just older then what you'll rent. I'm no pro on it, but I'm competent.

A good sized stump will take an hour to get out. That's somewhere from 20 inches across or more. Some stumps have more holding power then others, and it has been known to take even longer. Rarely will I get one out much faster.

The prolem is in the time it takes to dig down around the sides enough to break it free.

When I want a tree out, I dig it out whole. Stump and all so I don't have to take out any stumps. It's much easier with the weight of the tree helping to pull it out.

Eddie

Cityboyfarmer · Jul 24, 2005

I heard that too, Eddie. If you have the stumps removed as opposed to letting them rot, then it probably will cost most, if not all of what you made on the trees. That's what its starting to look like in my case, and that's why I'm looking at several options. At least the tree money is off-setting the project costs. I'd be out a lot more money to have just knocked the trees down. The timber harvesters here have no interest in chain-sawing 5,000 pine tree roots on the ground.

Anyway, I'm sure with all the collective knowledge here, somebody will spur an idea that will work out in the most cost effective way.

Anybody got any stump eating goats for sale? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dynamike · Jul 24, 2005

Using your numbers, $1680.00 month for backhoe, most rental places give you 176 hours per month. If you get one stump per hour average thats 176 per month. You will burn 350 Gallons of fuel per month. Thats another $700.00 so now you are up to $2380.00 per month. Or $13.52 per stump. Which equals $67,600.00 not to mention that you will be spending 5000 hours of your life digging out stumps. And also not to mention that you will still have 5000 stumps to dispose of or burn. Do you see my point? I still say get someone with a big grinder on a big Excavator, but thats just me talking.

Highbeam · Jul 25, 2005

"If you have the stumps removed as opposed to letting them rot, then it probably will cost most, if not all of what you made on the trees."

You found the treasure. A good logger is equipped to do the whole job including stump removal, burning, and raking. The logger doesn't do this for free. The logger will likely do all or part of this in trade for your portion of the timber proceeds. This is the cool part. If you get a check for the proceeds then you pay income tax on it. Pow! 30% gone and that much less money to pay the stump guy. If the timber proceeds go right to the logger then you get more clearing bang for your buck.

Include all stump removal, burning, and slash cleaning in the log contract. Make it clear that you want no money out. You are in effect hiring the logger to clear the land at a 30% discount. This is my plan and the logger was more than happy to work this deal with me.

Cityboyfarmer · Jul 25, 2005

I blew it and took the cash. Down here it is not recommended to let the loggers do the clean-up, but it sounds like a logical choice depending on your circumstance and location. Also, I imagine the level of "clean-up" you get may vary with the loggers definition of clean.

Cityboyfarmer · Jul 25, 2005

Price checked a John Deere 200 excavator. For a month, with taxes and delivery is $6,428.00. Then add the fuel that baby uses and you're over $7,000. Then comes the dozer rental to clean up. Even doing it myself will eat up $10,000, assuming I can get it done in a month.

Got a contractor bid in today for $2450 an acre. Other estimates are in the $1200 an acre range so far.

Wow! I had no idea going in it would be this expensive /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Plan B: Maybe I'll just do a couple acres and let the rest rot and do controlled burns and bushhog. Or fence it in and get a goat herd.

Man, this is depressing /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

EddieWalker · Jul 25, 2005

I've never been to Georgia, so I don't know about your weather conditions, but I'd bet they are similar to East Texas. Hot and humid with four distict seasons.

My land was logged about five years ago, before I bought it. Almost all the pines were totally rotted away, but from a distance, looked perfect. When you hit them with the dozer blade, they just cumble. Sometimes a snake will come out, once it was a copper head. And every now and then I hit one that stops me in my tracks. For some reason I don't understand, a stump ten feet away from another will have no rot on it at all. Go figure. The hardwoods are all solid without any rot either.

I think cleaning up one acre and letting time do the rest is gonna be the smart move economically.

Eddie

Taylortractornut · Jul 25, 2005

I have a friend that does stump splitting with his PC400 Komatsu and a splitter puller attachment he is supposed to send me the number to an associate that harvests stumps. He said he may know someone wholl take them off your and and harvest them to. As for your brush pile some logging companies make some serious money off boiler fuel. here Timberline logging take it all and then buy up brushpil;es from other logging contractors.

dmccarty · Jul 26, 2005

CityBoyFarmer,

I think you did the right thing in taking the money from logger. Its what I did as well. The logger is making money on cutting trees. The company that won the bid for our timber had equipment to harvest trees not pull/grind stumps. If I had put that in the contract he would have bid it out and most likely taken a cut as well. The way I looked at it the logger is there to cut trees. I wanted and did maximize the money I got for selling the timber.

Fiver years later the trees are growing up in the areas that were cut the most. Roughly five acres had pine and that was clear cut the other 35 or so acres was selectively cut and while there are stumps here and there its not that big of a problem in the woods. Where the decking operation was located is a mess but that is mainly from the pile of wood that was removed later for our house.

The plan is to have a tub grinder come and mulch it up.

The numbers you have on the stumps per acre sounds like mine. And the costs are comparable. I cleaned up what I could with my tractor by pushing into small piles. I dug up stumps that where up to 36 inches with my JD 48 backhoe attachement. Some stumps took eight yes eight hours. I did not have alot of time but I had more time than money. I got it done. The area where the pines where located is just regrowing. I build the piles and this summer I'm going to get back in there and recut the trails. With the trees growing up you can't see the piles anymore....

I asked around about selling the stumps for turpentine but everyone looked at me like I was nuts. Maybe in your neck of the woods there is a market. My dad saw a train load of pine stumps in Fl a few years ago that had to be going of for some sort of processing...

If you can let it rot, let it rot. I have burned some as well. Not fun but cheap. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Buring and rotting are the cheap way to go. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
Dan

Cityboyfarmer · Jul 27, 2005

Taylor,

That would be great if you knew someone in Georgia who would find value in pine stumps. Sounds like a win-win situation.

I'd gladly give the brushpile to anyone willing to haul it off, stumps too. I'll start asking around to see what I come up with.

Cityboyfarmer · Jul 29, 2005

Well, heres plan B. I'm going to have my best, flatest 5 to 6 acres stumped, graded and burned. The burn ban in my county is over October 1, so I'll have the contractor come in then and burn while he pulls stumps. The loader operator will add the stumps to the burn pile as the excavator pulls them up, while working the wind rows to speed the burn time.

The rest I will begin fencing and get a few head of cattle and goats to help keep down the scrub growth while waiting for the rest of the stumps to rot. Plus a whole bunch of bushhogging in between.

Come on Georgia lottery! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PBinWA · Jul 30, 2005

If you can get the stumps pulled sooner and let them dry out before October the burning will go easier. Otherwise, the stumps will be too wet to burn easily and you'll have to use diesel to get the fire going. It's much better if you can give them a month or two to dry out.

At least that's been my experience.

I had a 47,000 pound Kobelco excavator come and clear 55 Douglas Firs off my property. He had them plucked and stacked in 4-6 hours. Cost me $1000. The size of the excavator makes a huge difference as other companies had quoted me a higher price because their excavator was not as big. Shop around - I found my guys when they were between jobs, they showed up two days after I called them. This was easy money for them.

I found a guy who is building is own log home and he is going to come by and take the logs away for me. He's not the fastest but the price was right - free.