Beware cab owners: PTO hp is NOT same with a cab.

cowboydoc · Aug 26, 2003

I recently bought a JD 5420. 81 hp and 65 hp at the pto. The problem is they rate these tractors without a cab. Running the ac and other things associated with the cab takes quite a bit of hp. Last week I was baling some hay and was having a tough time going up hills without downshifting. It was a hot day and ac was running full blast. I was quite comfortable in the tractor but I was concerned about the hp.

After I was done baling I called the dealer and he said they'd come out and pick it up and put it on the dyno. Without air or anything in the cab on the tractor pulled 67hp on the dyno. BUT when you turn the air and all the electrical accessories on in the cab things went down in a hurry. With the stereo, lights, ac, etc. running it dropped the pto hp down to 56 hp. No wonder I was having troubles.

Without the cab I would have been fine. Deere so far has been pretty good about it. It looks like they are going to buy the 5420 back and let me get a 6415. This will give me plenty of hp.

The cab pto hp was even news to the dealer. They had never thought of it either. In the bigger tractors they are usually 20 hp or more over the rated pto hp to account for the cab. He said in the cutthroat world of the smaller tractors that obviously isn't the case. If you're considering a cab keep this in mind about the decreased pto hp with a cab.

Docsknotinn · Aug 26, 2003

Is there any standard mathematical equation to calculate HP loss when a short fat bald guy like me gets in ???? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Dave

cowboydoc · Aug 26, 2003

Not sure but I'm meeting with the Deere engineer and a customer relations specialist at 6:00 tonight and I'll ask them. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

RobS · Aug 26, 2003

I guess I'm not surprised by this Richard. In the auto industry these are called "parasitic losses". The power to run the AC, power steering, alternator and such has to come from somewhere so the engine output is reduced. Naturally, the manufacturers are going to advertise all the power they can so they test with the accesories turned off.

It will be interesting to hear what Deere says about it. Certainly admirable of them to buy it back /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Docsknotinn · Aug 26, 2003

Richard, If you could kindly get some real complex formula it would be most helpfull. I too would like to trade up and I can use all the "scientific" help I can get to convince the gate keeper. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I am very pleased to hear that they are willing to work with you to get you just the machine you want/need. That's something that can no longer be taken for granted from any large corp. A BIG perk !! I am not suprised that you do have some loss but I am more than a bit chagrined that it is that much. If it were me there might have been a little initial tire kicking goin on. Not a happy experience after spending the big bucks But It is good to hear they are working it out. Do they have the other machine in stock so you dont loose any field time ? Dave

cowboydoc · Aug 26, 2003

Dave,

It was really a shock to them as well. They had no idea with the cab and neither did I. The required pto for the baler was minimum 55hp. At 65 pto hp on this tractor we figured we would be fine. I did run the tractor before and it seemed great. It still is a great tractor. With the 12' mower and other things no problem at all. Plenty of power. It was just going up the hills in B range in third gear. In second gear it would pull it but not third. That's only 7 mph which they agreed you should be able to bail at. And without the cab and the extra 10 hp you would have been.

I can't complain though so far they are being very good about it. We'll see tonight when we meet to discuss the specifics of the trade.

Bird · Aug 26, 2003

I'm not surprised at all that there was some power loss, but I sure would have expected 5 hp or less; not 12 hp. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Of course I guess that just shows how little I know about cab tractors. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Docsknotinn · Aug 26, 2003

Cowboy, I have your problem solved. Just buy my 2210 and tow it with yours. Its 17 pto HP so it should be just about right to run your AC/ lights etc and Then I can get a 2210 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Dave

yellowsocks93 · Aug 26, 2003

Thanks for that info Cowboydoc. We have a 5320 with Cab and love it but we are just about to get a John Bean airblast sprayer and that PTO info will come in handy to see if we can handle it. We were 10 HP above minimum but I don't know now with the PTO drop. I'll have to put it on the dyno at work. How much is the price difference for the new tractor? JD giving you a discount?

Nick
990 4x4 turf, 272 RFM, 430 loader, 25A flail

cowboydoc · Aug 26, 2003

Yea I'd be interested to see how much yours drops compared to mine.

k9roccy · Aug 27, 2003

What type of baler where you using? I am considering the purchase of a JD5320 w/cab. Bailing is one of the tasks to be accomplished with this machine. If the 5420 could not handle the job, no way is the 5320 going too. Your experience with deere would be useful in making a buying decision.

cowboydoc · Aug 27, 2003

I have a new JD 557. It requires 55 pto hp. Without the cab I would have been fine. You would have needed the 5520 to pull the hills. On the flats I was fine.

They did buy mine back last night. I would have liked to have had a 5520 but there aren't any available and it will have to be made. They gave me a 6415 for pretty much dealer cost and extended the financing, dealer had it on the lot. Quite a bit more than the 5420 but ALOT more tractor too. They treated me right for sure.

Docsknotinn · Aug 27, 2003

Cowboy, How many Hp is the new one and are you gonna post a pic so us folks with little tractors like me can see what grand dad looks like ?? Glad it worked out, hopefully it benefeited a little bit financially. Dave

cowboydoc · Aug 27, 2003

The 6415 is over a 100 hp. 85 hp at the pto. It didn't really help much financially as even with the big discount they gave me it's still $11k more than the 5420. But it's also twice the tractor. Just wasn't looking to spend that much on a tractor right now. LOL....

Docsknotinn · Aug 27, 2003

100 hp ! coool. Now thats a tractor ! Dave

MikePA · Aug 27, 2003

doc, we need pictures of that new tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

cowboydoc · Aug 27, 2003

They're prepping it and putting my stereo and bale monitor into it. They also had to put the loader on it as the loader was on a 6420 that they had. They said I should have it friday afternoon or saturday morning.

yellowsocks93 · Aug 27, 2003

Cowboydoc,
did you get the new IVT transmission or the powershift? The new 6000 TWENTY series is really nice and you should be very happy with it.

Nick

cowboydoc · Aug 27, 2003

No I didn't get the IVT. It's only available on the 6020 series and is a $9k option! It is nice you are right there. I did get the power reverser 16/16 synchro transmission. They had a 6420 there with the IVT and every other option. It was definitely nice. But it was also $20k more than the 6415. This is the tractor that they were going to take the loader off for the 6415.