Best Tractor Battery / charging system issues ?

[John_Mc]

I've had a problem with my NH TC33D tractor almost since the day I bought it (it's a 2001, if I recall correctly). The battery terminals - mainly the positive one - corrode up constantly. I've tried all sorts of sprays, treated felt washers, greases, etc. nothing seems to make much difference. I forget if it's two or three times now that it has corroded the lug that goes on the positive battery terminal almost down to nothing: what used to be a solid chunk of metal ends up looking about the thickness of a hose clamp. If I have to, I can live with getting only 5 years life out of a battery (though this is the only vehicle I've owned, including several tractors that I can't get more battery life out of). I do mind getting only 5 or 6 years out of my battery cable.

I suspect two things:

1. The heat from being right near the radiator is causing problems (and possibly vibration from engine or use on rough terrain)?
2. The electrical system is overcharging the battery.

Does anyone have suggestions on this? The first time it happened, I asked the dealer to check over the charging system, and they said it was fine. I don't know how thoroughly they checked it. They may have just looked to see that it's charging and left it at that, rather than seeing if it's putting out the right voltage. I've asked them to verify proper operation and check charging voltage this time.

Is there a better battery to use than what the dealer is selling (just a regular variety lead-acid battery). Would an AGM battery be better suited to the heat/vibration? Any recommendations on brands? I've heard good things about Optima batteries, but don't know if they are suited to tractor applications, and if so, which type. I do know that AGM batteries prefer a little different charging and float voltage than flooded lead-acid batteries. If I make the swap, do I need to change anything in the charging system, of is this likely to be "close enough"?

 

[Coyote machine]

I just replied to your other thread. You need to determine what your charging system is putting out. You should have 14.25- 4.5 Volts returning to your battery, regardless of lead acid or AGM battery use.

Before changing anything supply us with what your alternator is outputting.

I suspect your real issue is one of bad grounding on the tractor.
Look at the places where grounds are: chassis of tractor where the negative cable connects, etc. Look for corrosion there, and make sure there is no corrosion in the actual cable under the plastic jacket near where it connects to the frame/chassis.

Report back outcomes before doing any battery replacement or other parts swaps.

Why now? 15 years of this going on?:confused3:

 

[Industrial Toys]

I would have wondered if the OEM battery wasn't sealed properly at the terminal. But you are on your third or so battery. I have used the felt washers with good results. A friend is always giving me cans of the spray stuff from work, but it's messy and attracts dirt.

I have had many batteries in the same heat/vibration environments without this issue. Periodic mainenance and cleaning is a MUST however. Install and forget a battery and I can guarantee, something BAD will happen! I had a corrosion bridge form on our JD to a hold down bracket, effectively slowly draining the battery. But that was also an old battery. Then of course, your charging system puts a wack of current into that discharged battery, creating even more gassing.

Get rid of old batteries! For the number of starts you get out of a battery, they are not expensive.

If your battery was overcharging, I think you would get very short life out of it.

A mystery!

 

[Gary Fowler]

I just replied to your other thread. You need to determine what your charging system is putting out. You should have 14.25- 4.5 Volts returning to your battery, regardless of lead acid or AGM battery use.

Before changing anything supply us with what your alternator is outputting.

I suspect your real issue is one of bad grounding on the tractor.
Look at the places where grounds are: chassis of tractor where the negative cable connects, etc. Look for corrosion there, and make sure there is no corrosion in the actual cable under the plastic jacket near where it connects to the frame/chassis.

Report back outcomes before doing any battery replacement or other parts swaps.

Why now? 15 years of this going on?:confused3:

I have one terminal on the positive post on one of my golf cart batteries that eats up the terminal lug for some reason. None of the others corrode up like that one, but I have no idea why.
None of my vehicle /tractor batteries eat the terminal like you describe. Coyote Machine might be on to something with the bad ground connection to the frame. My LS 6 year old battery was dead from setting all winter but after fully charging it up, it has been good to go for about 3 weeks of setting and no problem. There is absolutely no corrosion on any of the terminals on it or my 2009 Kubota battery. The only maintenance I have given either of them is a hosing off of the dust occasionally. Both are maintenance free type so no water to add.

 

[dickfoster]

I just replied to your other thread. You need to determine what your charging system is putting out. You should have 14.25- 4.5 Volts returning to your battery, regardless of lead acid or AGM battery use.

Before changing anything supply us with what your alternator is outputting.

I suspect your real issue is one of bad grounding on the tractor.
Look at the places where grounds are: chassis of tractor where the negative cable connects, etc. Look for corrosion there, and make sure there is no corrosion in the actual cable under the plastic jacket near where it connects to the frame/chassis.

Report back outcomes before doing any battery replacement or other parts swaps.

Why now? 15 years of this going on?:confused3:

^ What he said. ^

First check all the terminals and replace, clean as necessary. You need to do something to neutralize all that corrosion then protect the surfaces that you cleaned up. Paint for clamp and such and one of the protective sprays or greases for the terminals themselves.
Put a know to be good voltmeter on it with the tractor running to see how much the voltage the regulator/alternator is putting out. I has to be more than the battery voltage in order to charge the battery but not so much as to boil the electrolyte. At idle, most charging systems will produce 13.8 to 14.3 volts with no lights or accessories on (although some may charge at a slightly higher voltage depending on temperature, engine RPM, type of battery, and the battery's state of charge). Anything over 15V is likely to boil the battery dry.

After you get everything working as it should be, unless you are running the tractor frequently as in every day or two I suggest you get a maintenance charger and connect it to the battery while the tractor is parked. I have one installed next to the battery and always connected to the battery terminals. When I park the tractor I just plug it into wall current with an extension cord via the dangle plug.
Maintenance chargers are low current so they don't cost much ($20-$30), they are made to maintain battery charge not recharge a dead battery. However the one you get should cycle on and off automatically with the voltage so as not to overcharge and damage the battery.

When you have to replace the battery, investigate the AGM types that are maintenance free and are superior to wet cell batteries for tractors for a number of reasons, however they do cost more as nothing is free. Still even with those you should still use a maintenance charger if the tractor is left parked for long periods.

 

[RjCorazza]

Lots of good suggestions. I will add that some machines really drop off the charging voltage at idle, so when you put a meter on it, raise the rpms a little.
Once you confirm charging voltage, ground, and clean up the connections (remove and actually clean up the connecting surfaces), consider a sealed battery like the Optima red or yellow top.
I have optima batteries in all sorts of stuff, and highly recommend them.

 

[oosik]

I have replaced my OEM battery with an Odyssey. Its AGM and holds a fantastic charge. I've never had problems with either pole corroding. I do hose the battery down every spring, remove both leads, clean the posts & lead ends, relube with a spray product and have felt pads under each post. I keep the battery connected to a maintenance charger all the time.

Its very likely that corrosion of one or both terminals is related to lack of good grounding of the tractor.

 

[John_Mc]

Thanks guys. The tractor is at the dealer's now, getting hydraulics plumbed for a log grapple to swap in for the loader bucket. So I can't check voltages right now. I did check when the new cable end and new battery were installed years ago. Charging voltage seemed normal (going from memory, but it had to have been slightly over 14 V, or I would have taken steps to correct it). I have not monitored voltages over the years since then - should have, but didn't.

Corrosion has been an issue on that battery post almost since the tractor was new. The first time this happened, I figured I just had a bad battery or bad luck. Had the dealer check it over when it was in for other service - ended up replacing the whole positive cable, since it ended up too short to reach when the damaged part was removed. The damage this time was hidden under the rubber boot over the battery connection. I had noticed some corrosion some time ago, and cleaned things up. Just let it go to long this time before checking again. The majority of the damage probably happened in the last 1.5 years or so.

I have not checked the ground connections. I'll do so when I get it back.

The tractor is kept on a maintenance charger when it will not be used for an extended period. I use BatteryMinder chargers - after researching for my aircraft battery (costs close to $400 to replace). I settled on that brand because of great reviews and design features (temperature compensated charging and float voltages, desulphation feature, 5 stage charger). Results have been excellent. I own four of these chargers in various models. So I'm confident that the problem is not coming from allowing the battery to discharge too much, or from over charging (at least not overcharging from the battery maintainer).

 

[PatrickS2222]

I agree with almost all of what has been suggested, especially Oosik's reference to grounding connections. I also recall being advised some years ago that acid buildup on one terminal or the other was due to charging voltage being a little high or low ... the problem is I cannot remember - or find - which one affected which terminal. :confused2: Best cleaned off with boiling water and a brush, then coated with appropriate terminal spraypaint, or several light coats of spray-grease - the aim is to keep oxygen off the exposed metallic areas of the terminals and cables.
On the subject of the best battery - from 37 years in the auto trade, plus growing up surrounded by machinery: Several brands used to be very good quality and extremely reliable, but nowadays are rubbish. Having said that ..... all brands will fail at some stage - generally when it's most inconvenient, but nothingnlasts forever. Absolutely NOTHING is better than a VARTA battery. They should be available in the USA and various other countries, as I see them in almost every make of European vehicle at work. They are frequently renewed as a precautionary measure at 6-7 years old, but generally they are still quite Ok. I have put one when a replacement has been required in each of our tractors, four cars, ride-on mower, jump-start battery, electric gate and anywhere else needed. All three tractor batteries are well over ten years old and yet still quite happily start a 3cyl Perkins or 4cyl Vanguard diesel, even after standing unused for several weeks. :thumbsup:

 

[Ford850]

Thanks guys. The tractor is at the dealer's now, getting hydraulics plumbed for a log grapple to swap in for the loader bucket. So I can't check voltages right now. I did check when the new cable end and new battery were installed years ago. Charging voltage seemed normal (going from memory, but it had to have been slightly over 14 V, or I would have taken steps to correct it). I have not monitored voltages over the years since then - should have, but didn't.

Corrosion has been an issue on that battery post almost since the tractor was new. The first time this happened, I figured I just had a bad battery or bad luck. Had the dealer check it over when it was in for other service - ended up replacing the whole positive cable, since it ended up too short to reach when the damaged part was removed. The damage this time was hidden under the rubber boot over the battery connection. I had noticed some corrosion some time ago, and cleaned things up. Just let it go to long this time before checking again. The majority of the damage probably happened in the last 1.5 years or so.

I have not checked the ground connections. I'll do so when I get it back.

The tractor is kept on a maintenance charger when it will not be used for an extended period. I use BatteryMinder chargers - after researching for my aircraft battery (costs close to $400 to replace). I settled on that brand because of great reviews and design features (temperature compensated charging and float voltages, desulphation feature, 5 stage charger). Results have been excellent. I own for of these charges in various models. So I'm confident that the problem is not coming from allowing the battery to discharge too much, or from over charging (at least not overcharging from the battery maintainer).

I've had corrosion issues on some in the past, but I started using a BatteryMinder and have had no issues since. I do not leave mine connected all the time, but connect to each battery for a day or so every couple weeks when they are not frequently in use. Are you connecting your BatteryMinder directly to the battery, or to remote terminals or frame?

 

[Coyote machine]

Several batteries over a number of years can't all have problems; therefore your charging system is most suspect, including grounding issues mentioned earlier. A battery tender can cause issues, though rare, it can happen. Best to not leave a battery tender plugged in all the time, especially if charging problems are present. This is stated in most directions for the chargers.

Regardless of the above, there are only so many things that can cause the amount of overcharging present at your battery. Bad grounding, defective alternator, and or internal or external voltage regulator, or cables to from battery, alternator, ignition or fuse box.
You need someone to do a diagnostic troubleshooting process on the charging system to find out the cause/effect. Then, and only then should you decide what battery type to use going forward.:thumbsup:

 

[John_Mc]

Several batteries over a number of years can't all have problems; therefore your charging system is most suspect, including grounding issues mentioned earlier. ... there are only so many things that can cause the amount of overcharging present at your battery. Bad grounding, defective alternator, and or internal or external voltage regulator, or cables to from battery, alternator, ignition or fuse box.
You need someone to do a diagnostic troubleshooting process on the charging system to find out the cause/effect. Then, and only then should you decide what battery type to use going forward.

Agreed

A battery tender can cause issues, though rare, it can happen. Best to not leave a battery tender plugged in all the time, especially if charging problems are present. This is stated in most directions for the chargers.

That's true for some trickle chargers which keep pushing a trickle of current, and try to charge after the battery is full. This can overcharge and boil off electrolyte. The BatteryMinder models are designed to monitor the condition of the battery, and only charge as needed. Their directions state that it is OK to leave connected long-term. Between the constant monitoring of battery condition, the temperature compensation of the charging profile, and the fact that it will shut down if the battery parameters are out of an acceptable range, it should not be an issue with these chargers.

 

[Oldpath05]

Battery problems, good subject, everything everyone needs a battery, but which one, don't want to go down under to buy a $400.00 battery, rather stay over under and below $200.00 for Jeep Liberty, if that's possible.

I thought the motor was the only thing I like about my L3400, after reading the OP story, I'll add my charging system and Original battery to the list. Tractor was bought new in (07), now has 850 hrs.=about 47,000 mi. I looked at my battery post this morning out of curiosity, didn't see any corrosion, it's all covered with dirt and dust, cant even see the name or brand, assuming it's a Kubota battery, I never cleaned it, battery still cranks the motor over like day one, so what's all this battery maintenance about, like adding felt washers, paint, grease, mumbo jumbo gumbo for battery terminals.

 

[DK35vince]

I thought the motor was the only thing I like about my L3400, after reading the OP story, I'll add my charging system and Original battery to the list. Tractor was bought new in (07), now has 850 hrs.=about 47,000 mi. I looked at my battery post this morning out of curiosity, didn't see any corrosion, it's all covered with dirt and dust, cant even see the name or brand, assuming it's a Kubota battery, I never cleaned it, battery still cranks the motor over like day one, so what's all this battery maintenance about, like adding felt washers, paint, grease, mumbo jumbo gumbo for battery terminals.

I do grease or add some type of protective spray on my terminals.
But I've never had any issues with my tractor batteries.
My original battery lasted 11 years and never had a maintainer on it.

 

[Coyote machine]

Battery problems, good subject, everything everyone needs a battery, but which one, don't want to go down under to buy a $400.00 battery, rather stay over under and below $200.00 for Jeep Liberty, if that's possible.

I thought the motor was the only thing I like about my L3400, after reading the OP story, I'll add my charging system and Original battery to the list. Tractor was bought new in (07), now has 850 hrs.=about 47,000 mi. I looked at my battery post this morning out of curiosity, didn't see any corrosion, it's all covered with dirt and dust, cant even see the name or brand, assuming it's a Kubota battery, I never cleaned it, battery still cranks the motor over like day one, so what's all this battery maintenance about, like adding felt washers, paint, grease, mumbo jumbo gumbo for battery terminals.

Consider yourself lucky. Sometimes use of the machine on a regular basis determines the life of the battery.

 

[DK35vince]

I've still never been convinced battery maintainers help battery life.
My last pickup truck battery lasted 10 years, current battery is over 10 years old and still going strong.
My tractors original battery lasted 11 years.
My 2007 dual sport motorcycle and 2009 street bike are still running the original battery's. They sit all winter.
None have ever had a battery maintainer on them.

 

[dickfoster]

I've still never been convinced battery maintainers help battery life.
My last pickup truck battery lasted 10 years, current battery is over 10 years old and still going strong.
My tractors original battery lasted 11 years.
My 2007 dual sport motorcycle and 2009 street bike are still running the original battery's. They sit all winter.
None have ever had a battery maintainer on them.

It depends on how the battery is used and what type of battery it is. If it's used infrequently so the charge level drops and it isn't recharged completely, that leads to sulphation which is the leading cause of early battery demise. However if it's used frequently and you drive enough to recharge then you don't really need a maintenance charger. AGMs will hold a charge in storage, not being used longer than regular wet cell types which will self discharge much faster.

I used to let my 4X4 sit out in the driveway for weeks at a time without being driven or I'd drive it maybe a few blocks to pick something up at a local store. Not long enough to recharge. After a while both batteries went bad due to sulfation from the abuse and wouldn't hold a charge for squat. They were expensive AGM types so I made it a point to find out all about batteries, what makes them fail, how to sometimes recover them and what to do to keep them from failing or going south early.

Although I replaced them, I did manage to recover both bad batteries and still have them. They are at full charge today and I normally have them on small little homemade float chargers so when I need them for something they are ready to go.

You choose, if you let it sit then I think the 20-30 bucks it'll cost you for a maintenance charger pays for itself several times over by saving only one battery. A regular wet cell Interstate car battery costs something like a hundred bucks and AGM types cost much more.

If you're gonna let them sit, then at least disconnect them, especially if the vehicle is a modern EFI type which draws a small amount of current all the time. If it gets really cold then it's best to bring them inside too.

 

[DK35vince]

It depends on how the battery is used and what type of battery it is. If it's used infrequently so the charge level drops and it isn't recharged completely, that leads to sulphation which is the leading cause of early battery demise. However if it's used frequently and you drive enough to recharge then you don't really need a maintenance charger. AGMs will hold a charge in storage, not being used longer than regular wet cell types which will self discharge much faster.

I used to let my 4X4 sit out in the driveway for weeks at a time without being driven or I'd drive it maybe a few blocks to pick something up at a local store. Not long enough to recharge. After a while both batteries went bad due to sulfation from the abuse and wouldn't hold a charge for squat. They were expensive AGM types so I made it a point to find out all about batteries, what makes them fail, how to sometimes recover them and what to do to keep them from failing or going south early.

Although I replaced them, I did manage to recover both bad batteries and still have them. They are at full charge today and I normally have them on small little homemade float chargers so when I need them for something they are ready to go.


You choose, if you let it sit then I think the 20-30 bucks it'll cost you for a maintenance charger pays for itself several times over by saving only one battery. A regular wet cell Interstate car battery costs something like a hundred bucks and AGM types cost much more.

If you're gonna let them sit, then at least disconnect them, especially if the vehicle is a modern EFI type which draws a small amount of current all the time. If it gets really cold then it's best to bring them inside too.

Just seems I read a lot on different sites how maintainers extend battery life, yet I very rarely ever read where they are getting any better or even as good life from their batteries than I do, and I never use one.
If I saw many getting consistanly longer life from batteries that are using the maintainers being reported than I'm getting now I'll start believing it. But so far I haven't

 

[Oldpath05]

My 5000 watt generator gets started two or three time's a year, is that considered regular-ish? Been about 15 years, 8hrs. per year=6,800 miles on this battery, no maintainer added and or needed, although one came with it. My thinking is, good battery+good charging system=long lasting battery.

 

[Ford850]

Just seems I read a lot on different sites how maintainers extend battery life, yet I very rarely ever read where they are getting any better or even as good life from their batteries than I do, and I never use one.
If I saw many getting consistanly longer life from batteries that are using the maintainers being reported than I'm getting now I'll start believing it. But so far I haven't

I think that was his point. You'll see all sorts of battery stories (good and bad), but what really determines the life of a battery is how it's used and stored. I fall somewhere in the middle of all of the stories. I had issues with some equipment batteries for years (dead annually, corrosion, etc), but other equipment had good batteries for 7, 10, or more years. I went through the steps to clean all connections and grounds, which corrected some, but still had most of the same issues. So I read up on batteries and charging some more, and realized the common denominator of my problem equipment. It was occasionally moved out of the way or rearranged in my barn, briefly started and ran for less than a minute, and then parked again for weeks. I bought the BatteryMinder and now anything that gets a short run cycle gets plugged in immediately to top it off. And everything gets a top off from that Minder probably every couple weeks or so. I have one Minder with an extension cord on it, and easy plugin pigtails permanently connected to all batteries. It's been 2 years now using this system or process and I've had to replace one battery that was 7 years old. It was on one of my Grasshoppers and probably the hardest used of anything I own. I don't think everyone needs to use one, but I'm a believer that the minders or tenders will improve battery life for some people (like me).