Best Negotiation Technique

motorjock · May 24, 2003

I have found that with whatever I purchase it's always been cost effective to do this:

I do all the research, cost, what I want and where I would like to purchase it from. I then write all the numbers down with the best price that I have gotten via email or phone and then send my 6ft tall beautiful wife to the dealership closest to me and say "sik em". In all the cars that I've bought and the two tractors, I honestly feel that I got the best deal possible cause you know guys have a hard time turning a beautiful girl down. It's worked so far and everybody leaves happy, most of all the salesman. I don't think this is sexist, just realistic. I think as the testosterone goes up the MSRP goes down.

BillyP · May 24, 2003

LOL...it's a proven fact that nice looking 'people' get better treatment.

Me, I'm screwed from the start /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Anonymous Poster · May 24, 2003

As a retailer of elctronics, I'm very selective about who I sell to because in my business, we get paid for finding new customers for corporate. The hardware is minor, the commissions are significant. Because of this, my experience isn't relevant in that respect, but it is to the extent of providing service after the sale. In my business, if the customer doesn't fulfill his contract, I GET BURNED. (I lose my activation credits) We are extremely service oriented.
I am shopping for a tractor and doing my best to negotiate (we are up to $35K for a Kubota 2910). Knowing what I know, I feel at the $35,000.00 range, there is some room for negotiating. I'm negotiating with the dealers interest in mind, as well as my own. The last thing I want is to be left in the dark after the sale. The service is more important to me than anything. Service is what I base my business on and we have a minimum of a 30% increase each year. That's beside the point. I'm not an expert when it comes to machinery, just a newbie that's very excited. I expect a few bumps along the way and I expect a helping hand from my dealer when I need it, (although, seriously, I have a wealth of information at my fingertips right here on TBN. I just need the dealer for some of the physical things.)
I have a c/p below that I've used and posted for years and isn't specific to any one commodity but is in general to all.
YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH YOUR BUYING DECISION

“It is unwise to pay too much…….but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money-that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot….. it can’t be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better from the start.

JohnRuskin

There, it's done. No flaming please. If you read ever word above and understand it, it will make sense.

Thanx for the ear. just my 2¢

Rick Jay · May 24, 2003

midlifecrisis,

Ummm...this isn't meant as a flame...perhaps you made a typo? Just how many 2910's are you planning on buying for $35,000?

~Rick

Anonymous Poster · May 24, 2003

So far it's for a new 2910, R-4 tires filled with slime, block heater installed, H.O. alternator and folding ROPS.
LA402 w/valve, grille guard and 54"bucket with toothbar (w/3hooks welded on and painted.)
BL4690 backhoe package with 10" and 24" buckets.
RCK60-27B MMM
L5771 box blade (Yes, it's Kubota$$$$)
FL1021RC 40 tiller
Sim's hardside cab with work lights, mirrors and heater.
The above to include dealer prep, delivery, set-up, installation, touch-up paint, shop/service manuals, 50hr. service, 6 hours training, AND sales tax, for $35K.

Yes, I'm well aware that I could substitute the overpriced ORANGE impliments and go with, say.........black or red or something. Not interested.
My son will inherit this machine when I leave this Earth and the above description is what I want him to have, besides, it's being financed. We have budgetted $2-3K/yr. for add-ons and for the most part, they will have been ORANGE at birth.

O.K.
If someone is sure $35K is too much for the specified pkg. please let me know.
thanx
Steve

r0GuE · May 24, 2003

I might be able to do better through my dealer,.... but we'll REALLY have to lean on him hard!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just kidding.
enough is enough /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Rick Jay · May 24, 2003

midlifecrisis,

Wow...sounds like quite a set-up. I won't even try to estimate what a fair price would be...sounds like you're getting exactly what you want. Actually...sounds like you're getting exactly what a lot of us would want too /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I just have one little comment. Is there a special reason for the 24" bucket for the backhoe? I've got a comparable Woods hoe on my B2910, and the 16" bucket I have is about as big as I'd want to see on our ground. Of course, our ground is hardened rock-laden clay. If you've got nice soft soil or sand, then the 24" bucket should work well.

What a great set-up you're getting. You will be pleased!

~Rick

Bird · May 25, 2003

Nice package you've priced out, but

( L5771 box blade )

Don't you mean L7551? And

( FL1021RC 40 tiller )

I'm sure not going to tell you what to buy, but I do think you'll regret that. Personally, I'd go with the BL60C, but if you know you want the reverse rotation, then I'd go with the FL1271RC. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

And no brush hog? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anonymous Poster · May 25, 2003

Rick Jay- I was thinking of a mid-sized bucket to go with the small bucket, but there isn't that much difference between 10" & 16". I have several 400'+ trenches to dig (10") and at least one pond and a lot of digging in general (24"). Ground is o.k.
The big thing is that once I'm done with this project (new house) I'll have 2 buckets.

Bird- can't sneek nothing past you. I did transpose a few numbers, thanks. (good eye)
I was in deliberation quite a bit with my dealer and his rep over the tiller choice. I'm mainly going to bust up sod on about 3½ acres for now, to prepare for
1. a driveway
2. about 2 acres of lawn
3. planting beds for about 1500 trees eventually.
4. English garden with water featues.
It's only theory on my part, but I feel a rc tiller will do the job with 1/2 to 2/3 the overall effort. I have considerable experience with a garden tractor (Simplicity) and 36" forward cut tiller and for virgin ground, I feel confident the rc is the way to go. (I'm only human.) The rep said I'd have absolutely, positively no issues with a 40" rc tiller, but the 50" would be a greater strain on the tiller and tractor. (I'm going to have all kinds of time to ..er..work with this rig.)
I have no past experience with such a nice machine and I just want the best I can afford (to finance) and have something my son will appreciate in years to come. Just an old man looking for a little fun. LOL

Thanx for the input gents.

Bird · May 25, 2003

I agree that the reverse rotation will probably dig deeper and do a good job quicker and in fewer passes if you don't hit a rock or root or something similar and break something. The forward rotation will jump over such stuff with no damage. absolutely, positively no issues with a 40" rc tiller . I'd sure agree with that. I had a forward rotation 40" for my B7100; just the right size, then when I got the B2710, I offset it to cover the tracks on one side, but always wished I had a wider tiller. That little tiller put no load at all on a B2710. I guess I don't want to talk you into changing your mind and regretting it, but at the same time, I'd be willing to bet money that you'll later regret going so small on the tiller. But if you've made up your mind, then I hope I'm wrong.

Incidentally, my cousin has a New Holland TC29D and runs a 62" tiller; just the right size. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BigDave · May 26, 2003

( I can get a husky chainsaw at Lowes now. The cost is 75% of what i paid for mine from a dealer. I'd bet it works just as good as mine. )

Bad example...a real bad example.

If you bought a Husky product from Lowes, then you paid full retail. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif In fact you missed out on the typical Husky corp sales programs that the small dealers participate in. I have purchased 5 Husky items over the past 3 years and the ones sold at both Lowes and at my dealer were always on sale and cheaper via a Husky promotion at the dealer only. The last saw I purchased: I got $70 off(Husky promo), 25ft of chain(Husky promo), a case of bar oil(dealer's buy-in for Husky promo), & a full tank of gas(dealer's practice). I would never buy a Husky product from Lowes or a John Deere or Honda product from Home Depot. You pay full retail, no gas, no demo, just lousy service.

Egon · May 26, 2003

Big Dave:

Those Dealer promotions are nice things. Lock in a price and don't have to negotiate which I can not do anyway.

Best of all when I replaced my previous Husky51 the promotions allowed me to step several sizes in saws to a 365.

For some reason I really don't like shopping at any of the large chain stores.

Egon

r0GuE · May 26, 2003

When I saw the price on the 350, my jaw dropped. It was $100 less than i paid at the dealer a few months earlier. I called my dealer to see how they did this. He said volume. Oh well. I agree his service was better, he brought it to me on his way home when I called him to buy it back then.
Still.. not such a bad example.

BillyP · May 26, 2003

When I need a new Husky, I get my wife to pick me up one. She's a supervisor for the company that builds them /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

jinman · May 26, 2003

( does the customer have to sit and wait while a salesman pulls out the books, looks up the prices, takes a couple of phone calls and bangs around on a calculator before you have this price? )

I agree with you completely that the price should be marked on the tractor, but since this is business which is being driven by profit, I'd suggest that the price on the tractor would never be bottom-line price. It might start out that way, but after awhile, when the dealer kept getting folks trying to get him to lower his prices, he'd just go out and raise the prices so he could satisfy the "negotiator" syndrome by being able to come off the posted "bottom-line" price. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I believe the best possible situation is to be a well-informed buyer and go into the dealership knowing what you will pay.

In my case, I went into the dealership and told the owner I wanted a New Holland TC45D, 16LA loader, and a single remote hydraulic adapter. I told him I thought the price should be no more than $22,000-$22,500. ...out comes the books and calculator. I sat there watching him doing all the things you mentioned (including a phone call to the insurance guy). In the end, he said the tractor's price was $22,400 and there was a Fort Worth Stock Show discount of another $500 if I could wait two weeks. That brought the price down to $21,900. What could I say? At $100 below what I'd given him as my bottom price, all I could say was, "Where do I sign?" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif So my experience is that I was successful by taking the "offense" and letting the dealer see if he could match my offered price. Now, had I asked him for some really rediculous price, he'd probably have reacted to me totally different.

My best advice is do your homework, make an offer up front, let the dealer make a live-able profit, and thank him over and over every time he does warranty work for you even though you know he has to do the job. Also, sending your friends to him and buying other stuff from him doesn't hurt either. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

icat · May 26, 2003

Great responses by all. Interesting to note how different the perceptions are of dealer profits.

I guess I should start by apologizing for so late of a response, but I've been out driving the new L3130 HST at the property. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Since it was just delivered on Thursday, my buying experience is perhaps the most recent.

I, as others have mentioned, expect the dealer to make a fair profit. The question of course is what is fair. In my business I also sell a commodity - computers. However, if I never sold another computer as long as I live I'd still be in business. Why, because of our service department. As a matter of fact, we often recommend our clients purchase from Dell because they do not need our systems. Especially if the customer is after the lowest priced system they can find. If that's what they want (and need), then we send them to Dell. They can sell on volume, I can't. We come in after the customer buys the Dell, set up the system and connect them to their network, and generally make MORE profit than Dell did on the sale. Service is the key profit generator. I believe it's the same in car, boat, and tractors as well.

However, in tractors, if a dealer doesn't make the sell he stands to loose the service component as well. So it's a tight line that the dealer has to walk. For me, the most important part of the transaction is (and was) my comfort level with the dealer. I sent out bid request to 5 different dealers within a 75 mile radius of my home. I did not buy from the lowest priced dealer (very uncomfortable with their sales staff). I also did not buy from the highest priced dealer (about $1000 more than my dealer - a bit too fair). That left three dealers in the running and I found high points at all of them. There wasn't $500 total between each, so it wasn't price at that point. I visited two of the dealers and found someone I trusted right off the bat at the second dealer - they got the sale. Most important selling fact was that the dealer (Donald at Rioux Farm in El Campo) took the time to educate me on the purchase, discuss my choices, and steer me away from errors. As a result, I've been extremly satisfied with my purchase and I'm recommending the dealer every chance I get.

So, to answer the original question - I sent out a request for bid from 5 dealers and then visited with each. Then went with the best dealer with at a fair profit.

Anonymous Poster · May 26, 2003

Bird(and others)- I have a lot of respect for you, your knowledge, and opinions. Your # of posts and your persistency has caused me to reevaluate my tiller situation. I think I'll call the dealer Tuesday and upgrade to the 50" rc because I can always make the 50" smaller but it's hard to make the 40" bigger. I'm still kinda stuck on the rc feature, though. But then, on the other hand, if I went with a no-frills 60" or so..........I could add the hydraulic blade to the front ..............................then I could sell my plow truck ...........no, just hold on a minute. Let's not get too carried away yet.

Funny funny thing here. I found out why the CFO has been so willing with this whole tractor project (she is even justifying it to my mother.) All along, I thought her reasoning was to get the yard she always wanted with minimal work on her part (she is a VERY hard worker.), and that she was really concerned about my poor health. NOT! I'm here to tell you guys (and gals) that her real motivation was be able to purchase this dang-fangled, whiz-bang, new computerized stitcher machine for her new sewing room. And she thinks a sewing machine is worth $7500.00. Man oh man, do I need to get educated. She slipped that one right past me. OUCH!!!!
Oh well, life goes on.
Happy stitching and thanx again Bird. (I don't have all the answers and the mind DOES work better when it is OPEN.)

I an SSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad I found this place.
Thanx to everyone (ears, eyes, and mind are still open so feedback is welcome.)
Steve

Anonymous Poster · May 26, 2003

( 

Totally different model.
I can get a husky chainsaw at Lowes now. The cost is 75% of what i paid for mine from a dealer. I'd bet it works just as good as mine.

)

Not meaning to flame or anything, but all products are not created equal. I could give hundreds of examples, but to truly compare apples to apples, you must carefully examine the stock#/model# of the item. (The Milw*ukee modelXYZ sawzall from Men*rds is PROBABLY not the same Milw*ukee modelXYZ sawzall from Gr*inger Supply) You normally won't even know the difference untill you go to order replacement parts (trigger, bushings/bearing, brushes, relays, switches and the list goes on and on.) With over 20 years of retail experience, I've learned a little bit about things like drills, freezers, lawn mowers, ovens and this list also goes on and on also. So I guess the moral of the story would be, 'If you're going to compare apples to apples, make sure they both came from the same tree.'

Here's a REAL good example:
We are in the process of picking out the appliances for the new house. Whirlp**l makes what they call "Sidekicks"- an all-refrigerator and a matching all-freezer (with opposing hinges) in other words, a perfect matching pair, for side by side use. In stainless steel, they look like they belong in a commercial kitchen-AWESOME. Anyway, we looked at 3 differnt places and of course got 3 different prices, but the kicker is, they were 3 different stock numbers (only varied by 1 digit each) and what's really amazing is that they were 3 different sizes FOR THE SAME APPLIANCE. Go figure. (It was something like 26.6, 26.8 and 27 c/f, but I don't have the exact specs in front of me.)

anyway, that's my 2¢ about comparing prices (it don't quite work that way with tractors though.)

Bird · May 26, 2003

( to truly compare apples to apples, you must carefully examine the stock#/model# )

Good point; I've seen that little problem with lots of products.

At the price you quoted, that oughta be a right nice sewing machine for your wife. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

And I think you'll be happier with the wider tiller; sure hope you do, too. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SLOBuds · May 26, 2003

What an interesting thread, everyone! Thanks for the 'good read.' I particularly enjoyed some of the dealer comments which helped me to understand that perspective.

I am not a very good negotiator. So a few of the notes will definitely prove to be very helpful.

Right now I am making my need list along with its associated retail price. A couple of test drives are scheduled in 2 weeks. Then I should be ready to get down to business.

Thanks again.