Buying Advice Best mulching MMM for SCUT

[JoeLaFrank]

I am looking to upgrade a JD325 with a 54" deck with mulching attachment. I have taken the mulching kit completely off to confirm that my wife and I really like the mulching as opposed to gator blades alone. With the JD mulching system, we mow with the adjustable plate fully raised in the spring or when more than 2/3 of the height of the grass blades are cut, in mid-position in the summer, and fully lowered in the fall to mulch leaves and avoid raking. I have shopped Kubota, John Deere, and Kioti. Kioti does not have a mulching option. Kubota has the standard, finecut, and a full mulch kit for the finecut deck. Three Kubota dealers advised that they strongly advise against mulching in my area (central Indiana) and only recommend the standard deck. Further, I'm advised that the mulching kit is a real pain to take on and off on a Kubota. The JD dealer tells me the mulch kit for the 1025R will work similar to that on my JD 325. I had been leaning toward a BX 1870 or 2370 largely due to cost savings over the JD1025R, but with mulching capability being a priority, I've about decided that the 1025R is the way to go even at 3-5K extra. Does anyone have experience with mulching in the Midwest with a Kubota or JD 1025R who could advise otherwise or confirm what I've been told?

 

[AxleHub]

If you are looking for a true mulching solution in a mmm . . there is only one true unit to consider imo.

Massey maked a model 2315 deck that is used on their GC models. I have one. It is 6 blades (not 3). It us 54 inches if cutting and the entire width of the deck is less than 56 inches. No chute, no plugs or plastic baffles. The deck is built to me a wholly defined baffling of deck metal. It has hidden rollers in the back and visual wheels and roller on all sides.

It is high lift. There is no exhaust chute anywhere. I can mulch up to 7 inches of bluegrass or fescue or rye. My lawn is thick because its bluegrass. I'm in western wi. You cut and see grass blades and a few hours later they are gone because 6 blades are chopping them into healthy regrowth.

I have a gc1715 and it doesn't need double cutting or slow down.

No wind rows. Nothing to fly out. Cut next to flower beds with no need to worry which way you are cutting. .

 

[JoeLaFrank]

Thanks for your response AxleHub. I've now read some of your posts about your MF SCUT as well as research from the MF website. There seem to be some distinct advantages about the MF 1700 series vs the BX and 1025R. Despite filling out forms from the MF site and exchanging emails and phone calls I've yet to find a dealer in central Indiana who stocks the 1705/1715 or who can provide a quote. One sales rep I spoke with thought the difference between the 1705 and 1715 was the backhoe on the 1715. I had to explain that I thought that was the 1710 or 1720 with the backhoe. So the MF SCUT is not well known in my neck of the woods.

I'm still hoping to hear from BX users who might have the finecut deck or 1025R owners who have the mulching kit and can confirm it works well.

 

[SteveM70]

Massey Ferguson does a poor job marketing there scuts in my opinion. They have a great little tractor that is competitively priced. They could probably increase there sales of these things dramatically if they cared enough to try.

 

[AxleHub]

1. What radius have you looked in for an MF dealer? In central and western WI there are numerous mf dealers that also sell kubota. I'm sure there are numerous MF dealers in Indiana but maybe you'd desire to open up your radius a bit to more thoroughly evaluate the situation.

2. Because a tractor is a significant investment for many of us . . Possibly you might want to consider taking a little trip to really evaluate the possibilities of MF vs. Kubota . . at 1 dealership that carries all the products and has them ALL inside. YOU CAN GO THERE 7 DAYS A WEEK and most days they are open till 7 p.m.. And yes you could even test drive a couple.

Now this idea is to go to a big dealer in a little town. Sauk City WI. I don't know anywhere that would have a larger dealer or product selection to look at. While they would ve very price competitive . . that isn't the point because I'm not suggesting where you buy . . only that you get to see DIEECTLY the priducts next to each other. If you've read some of my post you know I took my wife along and she wasn't bored. If they can't answer your questions . . I don't know who could . .

Now I understand irs a sustance . . but it's also less than an hour from Wisconsin Dells and in another direction not far from tourist areas like Frank Llyod Wright's house in Spring Green etc.. In other words you could make a pleasant weekend of it yet not be expensive or boring

When I went there I had no idea it was this massive but small town operation. My wife and I sat on maybe 8 or so mf and kubota choices. We measured and compared. But there is also lawn mowers and decorating and a huge hardware store. It was worth every hour spent on the road to see it. And the price quotes supported me purchasing there too in my case. But I'm not suggesting that even though these are national warranty products.

Just a thought.

If you did it . . I'd suggest contacting Dan who is the sales manager for times that would work well. Tell him AxleHub from La Crosse suggested the idea. By the way . . I was the first sale they made that had the mf2315 mulcher deck. Even they hadn't heard of it till I told them about it (as well as mf insurance program that is excellent).

McFarlanes.net - Sauk City, Wisconsin

 

[JoeLaFrank]

Thanks AxleHub for your suggestion. My wife and I may just make a trip to Sauk City. Having Kubota and MF at the same location would be a benefit. I was finally contacted yesterday by a MF dealer 50 mi away. The salesrep seemed knowledgeable, gave a great price for a 1705 and indicated a 1715 was only ~$1200 more. I did not get a firm quote but it seemed like it would be~$3k less than my quote for a JD 1025R, but that price might have included a cash discount. Unfortunately for me they had a good spring for sales and only have a 1705 in stock with no mower deck. They are expecting new inventory within 2 weeks. He did recommend the driveover deck. Said for ~$200 more I could get the 2315 mulching deck but that trimming can be an issue with it as it extends only ~3" on each side. The turning radius or uncut circle might be an issue for a couple of our landscapings but they could be reworked. He wasn't sure that a mower deck could be tested on my property.

Any thoughts on the trimming issue? Also, what do blades cost and how frequently do they need replaced?

 

[SteveM70]

I just ordered a deck from the dealer I purchased my GC 1720 from. I wanted the 54" mulching deck. He just looked at me and said, the only deck I can get is the 60" drive over. I asked him why. He said, "cause know body wants the 54", they all want the 60". He went on to say that he could try to get the 54" but it may take a couple months because they just didn't make many any more.

He went on to assure me he uses two GC's to mow his land and the 60" is the way to go.

Needless to say, I ordered the 60" deck but haven't received it yet to review it.

Just thought it odd that two different dealers are pushing the same deck but quoting different reasons.

 

[AxleHub]

I'll try to respond to both posters issues if I may. Recognize that my pricing info is based on last year's prices in May.

1. The mulching mower deck by MF is unique from other major brand sub compact choices. Its list price was LESS/LOWER than a 60 inch regular or 60 inch drive over deck . . and remember a drive on deck by MF was more expensive than the 60 inch regular deck. My point is . . in 2015 the 2315 deck was several hundreds of dollars cheaper than the mulching deck.

2. In 2015 my dealer had to order my deck and it took 2 weeks or less to get it.

3. Recognize that I specifically wanted the mulching deck because of several reasons relating to landscaping:

a. 60 inch decks are fine for big flat lawns . . but uf you gave hills and rises or peaks and valleys . . Scalping issues increase. One of my neighbors has a drive on 60 inch j.d. mower and wishes he had 50 inch or 54 because of scalping issues and trimming. Ive posted this several times prior.

b. My 54 inch mulcher is about 56 inches wide while an MF 60 inch with its metal chute is about 74 inches. Again . . if you have big flat open lawn . . It doesn't matter . . I have an acre with lots of flower gardens and edging and both flat and heavily sloped areas . . . it makes a difference.

c. The mulching deck has no chute and has no directional blow of grass clippings or accidental rock or sticks flying. I can cut in either direction and have no worries about leaves and grass flying into flower or rock gardens. I have no worries about siding or windows getying damaged or someone getting hit by flying debris.

d. If you are often cutting 8+ or 10 inch tall lawn . . a mulcher mf 2315 may not be for you or you would need to double cut it. If you are cutting 3 to 7 inch grass . . . thats a target for the mulcher unit. Now I did cut my one lawn (not my home laen) one time with 10+ inch grass (fescues and perenial rye but no bluegrass and a few weeds that were 12+ inches) and I double cut it and it was fine but I wouldn't choose to do it as a normal thing.

e. No furrows of grass with the mulcher . . where you cut is where it drops.

Continued to next post.

 

[AxleHub]

4. Cost of blades . . I don't know. Ive used the mulcher deck about 40 hours since I acquired it and 3 of the blades I sharpened once and the other 3 were fine as they were.


5. My lawn is bluegrass where ever we sodded (60% of the acre) and the other 40% is perennial rye/fescue/bluegrass mix. So I get a broad cutting experience of grasses. I don't fertilize but I weed kill and we layer the yard with compost and black dirt on top of clay before sodding and seeding. I think are lawn shows very well but it certainly is not like a golf course green. More like a good fairway lol.

All of these things I've posted about over the last year. My dealer is a large dealer . . yet my salesman told me at delivery that he had to ask around the dealeeship to look up the mf 2315 because they hadn't seen one. And they were impressed with its design.

My summary is this. There is no such thing as a perfect mmm deck. Many variables are involved and had the 2315 mulcher not been available or been expensive . . then I would have gotten the 54 inch standard deck. I believe the 6 blades and the deck's full metal baffling and integrated roller design make a great combination for my uses.

I have a zero turn tractor also (not a rider). Its a cub cadet i1050 and its a great mower and a billy goat for slopes. This spring till july I was using it while my GC1715 was doing other things and the mmm wasn't on. The cub cadet i1050 is unique and very good. But now that my gc1715 has its fluids all changed and my mulcher deck back on . . . all I can say is "welcome back to mulching" lol.

P.S. I discoveted the MF2315 from some research I was doing on a very poor MF website and then started researching it. But after I acquired one and started posting about it I discovered there is someone on the forum who has had a MF2315 mulcher since 2007 or 2008. But since I started posting about them in 2015 I've seen numerous others that have gotten them in the last year also. Most dealers have not had awareness of them imo.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I would of loved a mulching deck for my Massey, but my leaves are too much for mulching in the fall. I would of preferred a removable mulching kit like other manufacturers, so I can switch in the fall.

 

[TractorGuy]

The current listing for the MF2315 says it's a right side discharge. Must be a typo.
Massey Ferguson | Mid-Mount Finish Mowers

 

[AxleHub]

I would of loved a mulching deck for my Massey, but my leaves are too much for mulching in the fall. I would of preferred a removable mulching kit like other manufacturers, so I can switch in the fall.

Greetings Fiziks,

I've actively used my mulcher deck on leaves in Fall and it worked very similar to how it handles grass. The differences I see in my mulcher compared to a kubota deck with mulching kit . . Is that the kubota with mulching kit I tested bogged down because it still only had the 3 blades and was designed for chute cutting and the mulching kit merely blocks the chute and turns the path. A higj lift kubota deck was better but I still couldn't maintain full rpm under cutting load. The Massey mulching deck has 6 blades working as you know . . And unless your leaves are wet . . The blades break down the leaves with 6 blades . . Much faster than with 3. In my testing . . I found breaking down material quickly with more blades allows the deck to not buildup resistance and force slower rpm

Now if the leaves are wet . . I don't think it is different than wet grass . . Its a problem for any mower then. But this is only my testing I did and cettainly others could get different results.

My rule of thumb for good mulching is if the engine can maintain full rpm . . . Then mulching has a good chance of succeeding. If rpm can not be maintained . . Then its a different result and a way to reduce load is required.

Were you able to test a mf 2315 mulching deck to see how it performed with leaves ?

I found the hardest leaves to work with are Ginko tree leaves and Catalpa tree leaves. One is very small and incredibly slippery and the other is very large and "movable".

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Greetings Fiziks,

I've actively used my mulcher deck on leaves in Fall and it worked very similar to how it handles grass. The differences I see in my mulcher compared to a kubota deck with mulching kit . . Is that the kubota with mulching kit I tested bogged down because it still only had the 3 blades and was designed for chute cutting and the mulching kit merely blocks the chute and turns the path. A higj lift kubota deck was better but I still couldn't maintain full rpm under cutting load. The Massey mulching deck has 6 blades working as you know . . And unless your leaves are wet . . The blades break down the leaves with 6 blades . . Much faster than with 3. In my testing . . I found breaking down material quickly with more blades allows the deck to not buildup resistance and force slower rpm

Now if the leaves are wet . . I don't think it is different than wet grass . . Its a problem for any mower then. But this is only my testing I did and cettainly others could get different results.

My rule of thumb for good mulching is if the engine can maintain full rpm . . . Then mulching has a good chance of succeeding. If rpm can not be maintained . . Then its a different result and a way to reduce load is required.

Were you able to test a mf 2315 mulching deck to see how it performed with leaves ?

I found the hardest leaves to work with are Ginko tree leaves and Catalpa tree leaves. One is very small and incredibly slippery and the other is very large and "movable".

I used to have a John Deere X534 with the mulching kit. The problem was, even with multiple passes chopping the leaves into fine bits, there are just some areas of my yard that I feel its gets too deep, smothering the grass.

 

[AxleHub]

I used to have a John Deere X534 with the mulching kit. The problem was, even with multiple passes chopping the leaves into fine bits, there are just some areas of my yard that I feel its gets too deep, smothering the grass.

That makes perfect sense Fiziks, except isn't the statement true with any mmm deck ? I'm missing why that short term condition prevents having a mulching deck vs. A discharge deck. Isn't it just a case of too many leaves in a particular area . . . for any deck ? ? ? and the quanity of leaves just need to be reduced before cutting or after cutting ?

I'm not saying any one deck is the perfect choice . . what I'm just asklng is . . Whether grass is far too high or leaves are far too high/heavy . . if too much accumulates on the lawn after cutting . . 1 type deck or anorher still leaves too much on the lawn (whether chute thrown or mulched). It seems the answer is big vacuumed unit with trailer catching or raking I would think ? ? ? ?.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

That makes perfect sense Fiziks, except isn't the statement true with any mmm deck ? I'm missing why that short term condition prevents having a mulching deck vs. A discharge deck. Isn't it just a case of too many leaves in a particular area . . . for any deck ? ? ? and the quanity of leaves just need to be reduced before cutting or after cutting ?

I'm not saying any one deck is the perfect choice . . what I'm just asklng is . . Whether grass is far too high or leaves are far too high/heavy . . if too much accumulates on the lawn after cutting . . 1 type deck or anorher still leaves too much on the lawn (whether chute thrown or mulched). It seems the answer is big vacuumed unit with trailer catching or raking I would think ? ? ? ?.

I went with the side discharge and added a grass/leaf collector unit. I would like to mulch for grass season and bag/collect for leaf season. The downside to the dedicated mulched deck if you can't change. I'd prefer a more traditional side discharge with a removable mulching kit. However, that feature alone was not enough to make me buy another brand tractor.

 

[dieselscout80]

Axlehub, how fast can you mow with your mulching deck if the grass is say 6” tall?

 

[AxleHub]

Axlehub, how fast can you mow with your mulching deck if the grass is say 6 tall?

Diesel,

Your question is filled with variables. Dryness of lawn? Grass type? Desired cut height? Slopes or flat? Sidehills? Soil quality (determines grass density)? Weeds or clover in grass vs. clear grass? Obstacles? Blades freshly sharpened? Overlap pattern?

1 yard is flat with fescues and some clover. It is general lawn quality and is not show piece quality. It is not unusual to cut it at 5 to 6 inches cutting to 2.75 to 3 inch. It's 3/4 acre with few obstacles but it's washboard. That could be cut in high gear or not if not. About 45 minutes but not trimming. If I have someone else cut it with commercial j. D. Zero turn, it takes him just under 40 minutes but I don't tear up any sod on turns and he does.

2. My other lawn is 1+ acres with half being very dense bluegrass with slopes and sidehill, the other half being fescues or reduced and clover combined and some considerable slopes. This lawn has significant obstacles everywhere. This lawn gets cut in low gear 4wd. 6 inch grass in fescues is n sweat but cutting high dense blue grass requires more overlap because the desire is triple or more than fescues. This lawn is deep black soil and irrigated with southern exposures. This lawn could not be cut with the same commercial j. D. zero turn that can do my other yard. Because this lawn is typically cut to 2.5 to 3.00 inches, the front lawn typically would not be 6 inches high. If I were to bag the front half with my prior riding mower at 6 inch height we're talking 20+ dumps of 2 large catch bags each and considerable clogging.

When you read how "fast" a mower cuts, it's often based on perfect condition variables. I've cut 7 and 8 inch fescues in single pass on my mulcher with little engine effect but that isn't deep black soil with blue grass density either. 7 inches of dense bluegrass cut to 3 inches would be a double cut situation.

Also recognize I can cut with left side or right side facing because there is no throw out to gardens or people or buildings. A 54 inch deck actual cut needs only a 55.5 inch space clearance.

Jmho

 

[dieselscout80]

Axlehub, so you can now at max speed in low range correct?

In some places you can mow in high range.

I looked on tractordata, but it only lists the max speed in high range not in low range.

What’s max speed in low range.

I have lots of slopes and our grass is a mix of Bermuda and Bahia grass.

We get hung up on the deck of our 54” lawn mower lots. We also have slopes that end at our pond.

 

[AxleHub]

I just ordered a deck from the dealer I purchased my GC 1720 from. I wanted the 54" mulching deck. He just looked at me and said, the only deck I can get is the 60" drive over. I asked him why. He said, "cause know body wants the 54", they all want the 60". He went on to say that he could try to get the 54" but it may take a couple months because they just didn't make many any more.

He went on to assure me he uses two GC's to mow his land and the 60" is the way to go.

Needless to say, I ordered the 60" deck but haven't received it yet to review it.

Just thought it odd that two different dealers are pushing the same deck but quoting different reasons.

Steve,

Back in early 2015 my dealer had not seen a 2315 mulcher either and mine was the 1st one they'd see. Since then they've sold a number of them. Why? Because they didn't know their advantages and build quality.

The idea it would take 2 months to order one sounds like a great excuse to sell what you have in inventory. Dealers (and salesmen) are just like the rest of us. . . . they want to sell as fast as posdiblevwith the least effort involved. . . if they can.

Personally of my own opinion. . . I would get a 60 inch for my needs because it's 6 feet wide with the chute and we have lots of slope changes and knolls which would mean scalping. My neighbor has a handsome j. d. X728 4wd riding mower with a 60 inch deck and he told me he wishes he had narrower because his slopes scalp if he doesn't raise the deck each time and he has limited pathways he can use in cutting around his obstacles.

But I'm sure on flat lawn the 54 regular or either of the 60 inchers cuts nicely.

As to taking 2 months to get a mulcher, it took me 8 days and someone else I know just got one in less than 2 weeks because he was waiting on it coming on a regular shipment.

Jmho

 

[AxleHub]

Diesel,

I think you are focused way too much on speed. If you are cutting step slopes, you'll have to lighten up on the foot pedal on any deck choice because you take more power to go up steep slopes. . . . Not to mention you were talking about 6 inch tall grass. But that would be no different with any normal lawn tractor or Zero turn.

Next, if you have "nice lawn" you should be cutting it when it's 5 inches or less (technically 4.5 inches to leave 3 inches). Which is why I gave you two quite different examples.

Next, we use absolutely no fertilizer. The lawn was designed for it, and so is my time. I mulch because it's good for the lawn and allows worms to live much close to the surface which is good for the lawn. I use some herbicides but zero fertilizer. This means I cut about every 6 days where many have to cut every3 because of fertilizer. I irrigate less often than my neighbors also.

Lastly, I have steep sidehills for my liking but I don't cut full speed on those either because I'm not in a race to get hurt.

Yes, on my less quality flat yard I can cut in either low or high gear but in high gear I don't go at full speed accelerator because it's washboard so I go in high but only mid accelerator.

I'm guessing someone is encouraging you to either get a standard deck that they have in-stock or a zero turn mower because you combine 6 inch height with "how fast". That's fine. But there is no way I can render opinions on your lawn density or quality because I can't see I and I don't know the growing conditions you establish for it.

What I can tell you is I have lots of small knolls and I don't have problems with scalping because my deck has 4 outside wheels plus a front roller and 3 hiiden rear rollers.

By the way, when I bought my mulcher I cost less than the standard 60 inch deck (they didn't have the drive on then).

In 3 years, I've sharpened the blades once at the end of each year and as a result I've never needed more blades (neither 3 or all 6 blades).