Beating your bounds.

[MossflowerWoods]

dodge man, thanks for your willingness to answer questions!

Dave,

You rock! My surveyor was very much open to my active participation (heck I was paying the $3500, so I was the customer also) but he was similarly VERY willing to answer questions nd help me understand.

I too thank you for both being here on TBN & being willing to answer questions. I will be asking about adverse possession also...

Very cool sir.

There is no way in the world a surveyor can use a transit to shoot through the trees and brush. I am not sure GPS can get a clear view of the sky.

Ed,

My 51 acres was similarly heavily forested, and not surveyed in over 20 years.

I spent a couple days with the crew as they were cutting trails to shoot transit's and record the data. There still are some the temporary marker plastic flags in places. But I also spent a couple hours with the lead on the team to actually walk my boundary and put my foot or hand on every corner I could.

My biggest issue is I have something like 27 "corners" that are the center of the northernmost stream of a branch (creek) in and out of my pond, and the banks of my pond just to make up northern boundary line. Only the western boundary is a straight line (and not due North unfortunately).

The good and bad of a creek is the property line can change. My land went from 49.75 acres 20-30 years ago, to 50.77 acres (all of the gain is a swampy marsh best as I can tell btw) mostly due to more accurate measurements/math, and the creek changed course (or was mis-marked) last time.

It was an amazing process, and I will NEVER buy with out knowing all my corners BEFORE closing.

Thanks,
David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

Dave,

Here is MY adverse posession question...

On one portion of my boundary, I think it is about a 700' run, the neighbors T-Post & wire horse fence meanders onto my side. At the corners, it is about one inch inside their side, and it wanders over about 12' at the widest spot.

The prior owner and they did not get along. But she did try to tell them they were on the wrong side (they followed an old fire road). In 2008 she had just that one line surveyed, showing the position of each T-Post. I have that survey now.

That is the setup.

So, my current survey also noted the fence is across the line. I have given the neighbors a copy of the 2008 survey, and asked them to move their fence. We get along pretty good, I've even offered to help move the fence. We talk often about putting in a gate for shared access to both sides (they have horses, so do I now). In casual conversation, I often mention "when we move the fence"...

My issue is this, they have never outright agreed to move it.

I need to know if I have done enough to prevent adverse possession.

That is really my question. We all get along, and I want to continue to do so, but it is MY land (if you know what I mean). and he is active duty USMC officer and he will someday move back to TX I suspect.

Thanks,
David

 

[new jersey mike]

I have a question for the OP,

My property came with a survey (long and complicated story) which has the 13 degree offset built in.

So when I try to calculate the compass heading between 2 points do I just use my parallel ruler and line up with the compass rose on the survey?

Then when I walk through the wood with my compass do I adjust it for 13 degrees or leave it at zero because the survey has the correction?

The survey was performed back around 2000 do I need to add any additional correction from 2000 to 2012?

My compass is the Silva Ranger.


Thank you

 

[sfloggie]

Good morning.

I owned 80 acres in Arcadia, OK in 2006 which had been surveyed back in the 30s and not lived on since acquired in 1889 (Land Rush).

I got it surveyed shortly AFTER I brought the land end order to do fencing and environmental work on the creek. The fencing was over 50 years old with some on the ground.

The surveyed showed my southern neighbor had moved the fence steadily Northward to the point the fence was 30 feet North of the surveyed line. I later found old fence posts where the fence had been is why I said moved "steadily"....

My East and West neighbors actually showed the fence was 7 feet and 12 feet toward them thus they had lost land. I told them all. The East neighbor said move the fence and the West neighbor said leave it. The South neighbor said noting. At this point I had never heard of Adverse Possession, Reparian Law, etc. But I started learning fast.

1, I coordinated with each neighbor as to the type of fence relative to cattle or horses, since a horse will "run a fence" thus cutting it's neck or legs. All had cattle.

2. Next I coordinated with my southern neighbor that I was moving the fence back South and would do erosion work that helped both of us.

3. The neighbor on the East asked if they could cross our property line to draw some water with a pump. I said OK and drew up an agreement. Next visit to the land, I found they had bulldozed a road across my land to the creek, cut a road down the creek and dammed it!

I contacted the neighbor telling them they had violated our agreement and could have gotting me in trouble as they dammed the creek (Riparian Law)and pushed fill into the creek (Clean Water Act).

This neighbor got mad and then got my Southern neighbor mad at me as they were friends. The Southern neighbor sued me for moving the fence as she said she owned it per Adverse Possession.

After a year of flying back and forth to OK in mediation, I lost. I had to tear not the $16000 new fence, (survey was s$900) but the old fence back on the ground in the place it was originally and pay a cash settlement. I was told I would lose in the OK court because I was not from there and had not asked the neighbor a yes and no question. I thought the neighbor had little money so I never asked for half the cost thus bringing a yes or no.

Soon after I sold the land to a great guy ensuring he knew his neighbors.

We now own 113 acres in VA which I had surveyed for $14,500 and the survey took 1.5 years to finish (another story for another time), but it is finished. I have walked the land with the lead surveyor and marked the corners. I am working on posting every 100 feet.

So Adverse Possession is real and painful. So is Riparian Law, Clean Water Act, and the Corps of Engineer and Federal laws on wetlands. Land is great and keeps my land clear, but people and politicians can make it painful.

best to you,
Jim

 

[sfloggie]

Oh, forgot to add.

I also provide neighbors the survey even in the city. One thing I found is that you want to place any fence, etc about six inches or so inside your boundary line.

If on the line, both neighbors then own the fence. If the fence is in need of repair (or a neighbor thinks so), the neighbor can fix the fence and bill the other neighbor for half. So I stay six inches or so inside.

Jim

 

[Scotty Dive]

My grandfather lost a piece of his land to adverse possession about 5 years ago in Rhode Island. Seems in RI if you maintain a portion of property and can prove it it becomes the land owners responsibility to prove otherwise. No need to notify the owner, or pay taxes or NOTHING

He was 85 at the time and had this empty parcel of land....near the water measured 60 by 120 feet and drove once a year to the town hall with his wife, paid the taxes, and drove by the land. I happened to drive by once and noticed the neighbor had a wood pile and a boat over the boundary. We asked them to stop, wrote a letter and called the police and then installed No Tespassing signs...they sued and showed the court a picture of the wood pile and a picnic table where they had a family party once. It was my Grandfathers burden to break the time cycle by showing he had maintained the land within 10 years of that picture. He could not prove otherwise and lost the land.

A year later I was told by a real estate attorney that all we had to do "was agree that we gave them permission to use it and now we want them off" A little lie but an 85 year old man would not have lost his land that he owned for 40 years.


There is a very special place for those people...

 

[sfloggie]

Wow..Amen Scotty.

Jim

 

[strum456]

This has been a very informative thread.

My question is, what does a surveyor "go by" to get started on a survey. What would you use as a point of reference, and how many such points are needed?

Back on the "neighbor thinks he owns my land" thread, I stated that I don't think anyone in my area knows their lines more accurately than 25 feet. The reason I said that is that most properties have not been surveyed in a very long time. Some neighbors are finding that their legal descriptions dont match their land. In fact, there is a township line crossing the area. We have two townships trying to collect taxes, but neither of them can prove what township some of my neighbors live in. How could a given property owner get an accurate survey that will match the big picture if the county doesnt even know where the township lines are?

 

[GPintheMitten]

This has been a very informative thread.

My question is, what does a surveyor "go by" to get started on a survey. What would you use as a point of reference, and how many such points are needed?

No surveyor here, but there is a "POB Point of beginning" on surveys. Usually a Section corner or Quarter Section corner. When you drive down a country road, ever see those round things that look like small manhole covers about 10 inches in diameter. You pull the cover off and there is a rod under there that marks the corner.

 

[strum456]

No surveyor here, but there is a "POB Point of beginning" on surveys. Usually a Section corner or Quarter Section corner. When you drive down a country road, ever see those round things that look like small manhole covers about 10 inches in diameter. You pull the cover off and there is a rod under there that marks the corner.

Humm...I dont think we have those. I have seen those in some areas though.