BCS or DR? Ferrari vs Chevelle?

[Gio]

Hi All,

This is my first post over in this end of the forums. I am looking to add a two wheel tractor to my stable and I had a question.

I have been very impressed with the DR field/brush mower, the videos of people tearing through trees and brush sold me on the brute strength of this machine.

...I did a little more digging and came across the BCS/Grillo products. I am a big fan of well engineered Euro tools/machines and both of these seem like quality pieces.

Question is, for pure brush cutting and land clearing can the BCS hang with the top of the line DR?

Feels like a big block Chevelle vs Ferrari matchup to me.

1/4 mile, lighting up the tires, doing doughnuts in the High school parking lot with a few beer cans in the trunk: Chevelle all the way.

Long sweeping turns, cutting through the Alps, valet at the country club: Ferrari for sure.

I am sure the BCS will last longer, has more uses and easier to handle but i haven't seen evidence of brute knock down power. I have some dense woods to clean up, crazy over growth and general heavy mowing around outbuildings and back fields. Only 5 acres but very diverse (woods, field, creek, ditches, flats and hills)

Any thoughts?

 

[Scooby074]

Have you ever ran a DR?

If not, you should know ITS A MAJOR WORKOUT :thumbsup: If it'll push it over it will cut it, however YOU will feel it. The commercials dont do it justice.

One advantage of the larger BCS's is they have steering brakes. This sounds like it would be a huge advantage control wise especially on slopes(i havent tried one with steering brakes to confirm)

Plus the BCS and the other euro's have the advantage of being able to run other types of attachments.. from sweepers to tillers. Something to consider for later.

Ive run a Dr , and a Billy Goat. And a small BCS as a tiller. The BCS is a much more refined (and heavy duty IMHO) machine.

One thing to check out that could make a difference is ground clearance. I have a lot of short stumps and i was forever catching the undercarrrage of the BG on the stumps. Check for a decent skid plate or taller tires / more ground clearance if you think this might be an issue.

If your wanting a pure brush mower and got a big budget, check out this beastie : The Brush Blazer http://www.pecobrushcutters.com/models/tbb-3001/index.php

Theres also some impressive ride on models from Japan made by Canycom... Bring your wallet though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcCANW3JKI8&feature=related

 

[Gio]

Thanks J. I have heard the DR can be a real workout.

Not sure how legit the return policy is but it seems like you can return it at any point within 6 months if it doesn't work out.

I would like to give a bcs a run as well, can't find any dealers in my area but i'll keep looking.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Scooby074]

DR definitely has the best return policy.

Good luck in your choice.

 

[js5020]

An interesting machine for those who only need to mow and move some snow around. Belt drives, which to me arent necessarily a negative as long as the are designed for the duty. Uses an electric clutch for that independent pto "feel". Wonder how well the finish mower and blower work?

 

[farmerboybill]

Hiya Gio,

I don't have any personal experience with a DR, but I automatically suspect anything that is sold using huge amounts of advertising. I wonder how much of their reputation is deserved and how much is just repeat, repeat, repeat of their advertising in TV, radio, and magazines. I also wonder how much of the $3000 plus I'm shelling out is for R&D and how much is going to selling me the darn thing. I do have personal experience with compostumblers, Troy-bilts, and Mantis' and can say with certainty that those machines got a lot of their reputation by advertising hype. They're good machines, but they're not as good as advertised.

I'll keep my BCS 830 with 26 inch Del morino mower, 36 inch sickle mower, 38 inch finish mower, 30 inch tiller, 3 inch chipper, 28 inch snowblower, etc, etc.

 

[Doloe]

I bought a brush mower deck attachment for my BCS 720. It had the power to cut things up but didn't have adequate ground clearance. It was continually getting low centered. I think the larger BCS units with taller wheels might address this problem.

I sold the mower deck after I bought a DR (12hp). The DR has been almost as good as advertised. Mowing tall thick stuff like canary grass tends to leave strips where the grass is just pushed over along the edges of the deck. A second pass from the opposite direction is needed. I also got the lawn mower deck. I've been very pleased with the DR. Keep in mind that it is not a commercial unit. I've got 600 hours and 10 years on mine. Any more use I get out of it will be bonus time.

 

[Gio]

Thanks for the feedback. I think the BCS is a better overall machine but I really need the rough cutting ability of the DR.

If you haven't seen this it is worth a look. The guy is very funny and the machine is a beast

YouTube - ‪Chomp Chomp... A Path Of Destruction...‬‏

 

[nomad289]

Doloe wrote: "I bought a brush mower deck attachment for my BCS 720. It had the power to cut things up but didn't have adequate ground clearance. It was continually getting low centered. I think the larger BCS units with taller wheels might address this problem."

I went to "kick the tires" on some BCS last weekend. They had the 722 with 8/16" wheels and the 732 with differential drive had 10/20" diameter tires.

The dealer said he liked the 732 because it had more ground clearance and didn't "bottom out" when you tipped the unit to turn it. After pushing both around I have to agree--he was right on. The 732 is bigger than I wanted but with the additional ground clearance and differential drive it seemed it would be easier to manouver.

One BCS had a brush mower attachment, it has about a 3" extension off the center rotor and 2 hinged swinging blades attached to that. Looked very robust, almost 1/4" thick. Pretty sure it would hold up well. The unit was very "front heavy" due to the heavy construction of the brush mower. I've been considering a flail mower instead, I think it's a little better if you hit rocks, etc. and has many smaller hinged (replaceable) blades instead. The dealer said most people use a sickle mower, but like you (if I buy one) I want something that leaves a cleaner cut like the brush/flail units.

I've never used a BCS or DR so these are just observations/speculation. Good luck with your choice.

 

[farmerboybill]

Hey Nomad,

I strongly recommend considering the 853 over the 732. The 732 lacks a third working gear and brakes. Both of these features really make mowing more effective. If cost is a factor, look seriously at a 107d Grillo. The 107d has the third working gear, steering brakes AND it costs $150 less than the 732. Also, the Berta flail mower is a better choice over the BCS flail mower. It features a removable plate under the deck that allows the material to exit faster than a BCS mower. The stuff still comes out chopped up, but it's less so than with the plate. This allows you to run it with lower HP engines or a gear faster. It's also less expensive than the BCS. You can only get the Berta through Earth Tools or one of Earth tools' dealers.

Gio,

Here's a youtube link of a Grillo with Berta flail mower. Granted, the guy isn't a maniac like in the video you linked. Did you notice that guy returned his DR after 5 months? The way he ran it, it was probably shook to pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJV-LuNEAko

Bill in WI

 

[nomad289]

Gio: checked the BCS brush mower specs today; it is indeed a 1/4" bush hog type blade. Expect it would be as good or better than DR.

Bill: Thanks for the great link showing the flail mower in action. The terrain and brush being cut along the stream bank is almost exactly the application I would be using. The flail mower also looked less "front heavy" than the "bush-hog" type brush mowers. The steering brakes seem like a really good idea, wish they had them on the smaller models. Good advice, thanks.

 

[Gio]

Bill, Thanks for the link and the sound advice. I am going to give Earth tools a buzz and weigh my options.

Nomad, thanks for the spec check.

 

[Coloradoan]

Hi Gio:

Did you decide what to get? I went with Ferrari after driving a Chevelle.

I was asking similar questions this year. I used a 26" DR Brush Mower with a 17HP Kawasaki for 10 years on our mountain property. Originally I had the same misgivings like Bill in WI about the marketing-driven DR operation but overall I found it a decently designed and built machine. It served me reasonably well but when I lost it in a fire I decided to not replace it and go with the BCS platform instead. Here are my gripes about the DR:

- I did not like it to be "single purpose". At 17hp the DR really is a walk-behind tractor but with a very small number of options. It seems they understand it because they offer a few more implements now than 10 years ago but some of them seem like an afterthought. The belt drive instead of a PTO is a limitation. It's not really a platform like true walk-behind tractors.

- The belt-drive causes power transfer losses. I think that's why the engine has to be so big.

- The big engine sits high above the axle and raises the center of gravity. This doesn't matter if you mow a fairly level property but it's an immediate problem on slopes.

- The mower wants to roll when you mow across the hill and you end up manhandling it to keep the upper wheel on the ground. You don't just "walk behind".

- If you mow up the hill you must pull up on the handlebars to keep the mower deck on the ground and prevent a wheelie; down the hill it's nose-heavy and you must suspend yourself on the handlebars to prevent the mower deck skids from "plowing" the ground (my neighbors like to watch me doing the calisthenics, I think).

- The limited slip differential is truly "limited". It rarely prevents a wheel from slipping. I've heard that some owners retrofitted a real lockable differential.

- The handlebars seem flimsy and too flexible for such a heavy machine.

- There are no steering brakes. When you mow across the hill and the deck tends to pull downhill you must keep it going straight with the handlebars.

- The machine is built more like a motorcycle than like a small tractor; it did not do poorly in 10 years of seasonal use but it would affect longer term or heavier use durability.

All that said I liked the machine well enough to not seriously think about a replacement until the fire. It's not cheap but it's less than a comparable 2-wheel tractor with a mower deck. It has a decent ground clearance and an approach/departure angle with standard wheels. The belt drive allows a single straight heavy blade---no breakaway joints needed. The mower is not light but I was able to manhandle it on the slopes (my wife never tried and I don't think she would have enjoyed it like the ladies in DR advertising but it was not a problem for me---I don't like going to a gym).

After the fire I had to and could start from scratch and I settled on BCS over Grillo but it was a close call. Bill in WI has listed some of the reasons why it's not a slam dunk decision.

I bought the BCS 852 with 6.5x12x23 wheels and a 32" Zanon Brush Mower. It works well and even with the much wider and heavier deck it is quite civilized. I also bought a 40" Grillo snow blade with it but haven't used it yet. Other implements will have to come later but I am lusting after a big front cart (our budget may dictate something like oldmech's solution).

I hope that later I'll be able to report more on using the tractor on our mountain.

 

[First one]

Just my :2cents:
I have a DR Mower 17hp that I used for mowing blueberries and my fields. I've had it for 7 or 8 years now and have a snow blower for the winter . I will say, it does take a bit to handle it , turning it while pushing down on the handles when you want to turn around after a couple of hours gets old .
I've been able to cut what ever I wanted without stalling the motor, and they have a bush blade to be able to cut thicker stuff. It's like anything, you just have to get use to how to work it . I like the idea of the belts , because when you do hit a rock or stump ... whatever it will just slip on the belt for a second and no damage done but to the blade. There one beast of a mower, and I wouldn't part with it . Besides buying a belt for my snow blower and a couple of shear pins and a battery plus changing the oil and filters, I've never had anything go wrong with it , and has always started even on the coldest days.
Never had any power loss even going though thick wet grass . The only time there were any loss of power was when I hit something solid, like a rock.
I would like to see it have a different setting for mowing heights , but it cuts good without much of a mess left behind , if you blow what you just mowed into what your going to cut next.
As far as a snow blower goes , it'll blow dry snow 30ft and wet stuff like 10 or 12ft. I'd like to put chains on it ,just to see what it would do!