Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Egon]

In the year of 1900 how many filling stations for ICE vehicles did exist?

Did this supply increase to meet the demand??

 

[txdon]

In the year of 1900 how many filling stations for ICE vehicles did exist?

Did this supply increase to meet the demand??

Yes but didn't only the rich have vehicles in 1900 and didn't their rich friends whom they drove to fill up their tank with their home gasoline supply. The historian at Lake Tahoe had a lecture tour about this, they not only filled up the vehicle but also washed the visitors car for them.

Hey Egon I'm coming for a visit can you charge my new EV and have my car washed while we visit? I think it would work till they build enough charging stations. Ha.

Wait a sec, you are in Canada, I Need to get recharged before I get to the Texas state line.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Yes but didn't only the rich had vehicles in 1900 and didn't their rich friends whom they drove to fill up their tank with their home gasoline supply. The historian at Lake Tahoe had a lecture tour about this, they not only filled up the vehicle but also washed the visitors car for them.

Hey Egon I'm coming for a visit can you charge my new EV and have my car washed while we visit? I think it would work till they build enough charging stations. Ha.

I don't give a who subsidizes EV charging stations. I pay for a lot of subsidies I don't see a return on; about time I get mine...

 

[txdon]

I don't give a who subsidizes EV charging stations. I pay for a lot of subsidies I don't see a return on; about time I get mine...

Let me know when you get your 240V charging station so I can put you on my "TBN visit and a charge" list.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Let me know when you get your 240V charging station so I can put you on my "TBN visit and a charge" list.

You are welcome anytime... If my plan works out, I'll be charging off of Solar... on God's nickel so to speak...

 

[Fuddy1952]

I'm befuddled!
We need a new "like" button (a "sorta-like").
I still say do all the math. I really considered solar here years ago, but looking back I made the right choice not doing it. Investing money had a far greater return.
A most interesting story I read years ago was in 1885 (as I recall) Benz drove his horseless carriage home for lunch (2 miles I think it was). He went outside later and it was gone!!! A note from his wife "gone to visit relatives", she took their two boys (about 12) with her...50 miles away!
Boys helped push car up hills (probably 1hp) and she worked on it there & back! I'm thinking she designed or helped design it.
At a tavern they stopped at a fight broke out..."witchcraft!", or "devil powered". One guy calmed things down saying it ran by clockworks. She bought lamp oil for fuel.

 

[bnold]

I can see both sides, however (& you knew that was coming ), you have to compare apples to apples.
When someone says "I can charge my EV at home overnight for $2"...think of the ACTUAL cost.
I just for fun pick two: a Tesla 3 and Hyundai Elantra. Wait: before the yelling "no comparison, Tesla is 10X better, made in USA, etc.", just a quick comparison.
Assume for argument you keep each 10 years and new batteries will be needed in 10 years. In 10 years each have 120K miles.
Hyundai is about $20,000...Tesla $45,000
Hyundai 10 yr/100K drivetrain warranty
Tesla 8 yr/100K drivetrain warranty
What's the real cost? Hyundai assume 30 mpg, gas $4/gal. = $16,000 fuel+ $800 oil/filter+tires.
Tesla assume 130 mpg (equivalent), using $2/day figure X 6 days/week =$6,240 charging + tires.
Bottom line, Tesla costs $25,000 more to start with (less $2,500 - $7,500 fed/state credits but + charging hook-up) so just say $20,000 more to start.
Now that bugaboo the batteries. If they are $23,000...that's probably what the EV is worth (maybe), so may as well dynamite it.
Yes, assuming gas in 10 years is $4/gal and electricity doesn't increase in 10 years (reality is both probably increase proportionately) then you paid $20K more upfront, only to save $10K over 10 years.
In the end, the Tesla will be worth way less than the Hyundai. However:
Adding more confusion is lots of articles claim batteries degrade 1%/year...so the 10 year old Model 3 would have 90% battery life. Similar to some Elantras needing motor or transmission just past warranty.
In the long run it seems like spending a dollar to save a dime.

I’ve already stated I didn’t buy a Tesla due to straight ‘financial’ reasons. I know exactly what this toy is.

But this logic above is apples and oranges. Let me take it a bit further and say I buy a $50k Tesla or a $10,000 enduro motorcycle… which one is cheaper after 120k miles of commuting? (3ish years for me) Note: used Tesla 3s with 80k+ miles are selling for $40-$50k+ right now. Check Autotrader, as someone who was recently shopping for one, used low mileage (
More real life (as it is going on in my house right now), is a $50k Tesla or a $55k Lexus NX350h… start from the same ‘class’ of vehicle.

 

[Hay Dude]

I don't give a who subsidizes EV charging stations. I pay for a lot of subsidies I don't see a return on; about time I get mine...

Hmmmmm, look who wants subsidies now…..
No subsidy for truckers for mandated drug testing, but subsidies for rich guys EV charging stations for the “Tesla’s“ and the “Lightning F-150s”.



“China controls over 85% of the worlds rare earths and EVs can’t run without them.“
Source: Robert Bryce “A Question of Power” author.
He says large windmills also require huge amounts of rare earth elements to manufacture. It’s not just EVs they will control.

 

[Grumpycat]

Easer link says 7kw single phase.

Tesla wall home charger is good for 11.5kw single phase.

Tesla Wall Connector is good for 17.28 kW.

The current Tesla Mobile Connector which comes with the car is 240V 32A for 7.68 kW. First generation was 40A for 9.6 kW. The biggest electrical plug, NEMA 14-50, is only rated for a 50A circuit. A 50A circuit can only source 80% or 40A continuously.

 

[Grumpycat]

But the batteries last longer, and how will the economy of this two vehicles be if the both are in full working order after 10 years?

My 8 year old Tesla Model 3 had 265 mile range new. Last time I tried it charged to 252 miles.

OTOH it is on its 3rd 12v battery.