Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

Biomass neither increases nor decreases atmospheric CO2. Fires in Australia and Indonesia may release a few gigatons of carbon, but over the span of decades it's steady state. The programs to ameliorate global warming by planting trees is a scam by polluters. We need to quit burning fossil fuels that haven't been in the atmosphere since the Permian.

Astrophysicist Hugh Ross got my attention on coal burning when he mentioned it releases uranium and thorium.

I get the point the burning of carbon based fuels are not all equal in risk of planet warming and air pollution.

Finally I am starting to understand that it's what follows global warming that will depopulation earth the most.

Dr. Ross thinks by acting sensible now we may delay the coming ice age by maybe a thousand years based on millions years of temperature data.

Since we can't stop the cycles he is not a fan of draculian steps that harms humans in the meantime. Some can move to EVs charged by the sun that continues to get brighter but that may not be a reality for many.

 

[Jstpssng]

Deserted factories show how China's electric car boom went too far

Serves as potential warning sign for investors who've poured money into EV makers and technologies

financialpost.com

600 EV makers was a few too many for a country like China. Current changes may thin the herd even more. We are already see some tossing in the towel in the USA.

If we have a pandemic led worldwide downturn it's going to take out more weakness.

You see that in any industry when it starts taking off; look at the auto industry of 100 years ago. It really doesn't matter who is the most innovative, there were a lot of ideas back then which were way before their time. 30 years ago cell phone companies were popping up everywhere; now there are only a few. Yet I wish that I could make calls today in the same places I could back in 1996... often in places where service was great back then, I now have to drive 20 miles just to hit a tower.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Sounds like some of the farmers are excited about global warming.

 

[Grumpycat]

As great as EV's may be, it's completely pointless. We don't produce enough electricity in the US for widespread electrical vehicle usage. Brownouts and blackouts are becoming more and more frequent.

Only where incompetent government applies a heavy hand in restricting investment and expenditures (such as Kalifornia). Kalifornia is the biggest importer of electric power from adjacent states because 1) it is so expensive to build in Kalifornia, 2) government takes 20 years of continuously changing their minds and requirements for the permits (which only adds to the cost), and 3) it is easier to buy out of state.

The US produces 70% of the electricity we use, and imports the rest.

Hyperbole and spin. Cite your source. My source says 1.6% in 2014:
"There are currently more than 30 power transmission linkages between the United States and Canada. During 2014, 60 companies in Canada exported 58.4 terawatthours (TWh) of electricity into the United States, making up 1.6% of U.S. electricity retail sales and 10% of Canadian electricity generation. The largest exporters were Hydro-Québec (16.4 TWh) and the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board (8.6 TWh)." U.S.-Canada electricity trade increases - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

We're shutting down nuclear plants and not replacing them at an alarming rate.

The rate is not alarming. Old facilities are being decommissioned. 50 year old nuclear power plants only had a 25 year design life. https://www.nrc.gov/info-finder/decommissioning/index.html

"Oh but the solar!" except solar is all but useless half the country. And the solar that is useful produces at the exact opposite time that people would charge their cars, overnight. Either people need to get over their stigma of nuclear plants, or they need to get over EV erections.

The USA has a 50% surplus electric generating capacity at night.

Yes, by all means build new nuclear power plants, not ancient Bellefonte.

 

[Grumpycat]

This electric vehicle fad isn’t based on fundamentals, economics, or even physics. It’s a bunch of virtue signaling, backed by an ignorant government who doesn’t know any better. People who don’t know anything about vehicles or machines, trying to use their feeble power to implement things that make them feel better.

Contrary to spin, a $50,000 Tesla is as nice as any $50,000 ICE. The Tesla has no subsidy or tax credit. It is $50,000 of labor and physical materials. Around here energy costs are under 3¢/mile using the same source used to charge your phone or operate computer. Those are hard fact figures to bank on.

The fact the Tesla can be powered by any mix of coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear, hydro, solar, electrodes in a potato, or even unicorn tears is just icing on the cake. An ICE has to apply extreme measures to dilute gasoline by 10% with ethanol, or similar extreme measures for 20% biodiesel.

In CARB states ICE manufacturers pay Tesla for credits for permission to sell ICE vehicles. This is not a tax credit or subsidy. Without Tesla those states would not have new ICE vehicles to choose from. Tesla is perpetuating the ICE. For those who missed the whole point of "Who Killed The EV-1?" it was the CARB who intended to immediately outlaw the ICE once they saw the success of the EV-1. Seeing that poker hand, GM killed the EV-1 telling CARB that if ICE was outlawed then they get no new vehicles at all. That they would be stuck with older dirtier ICE. CARB blinked.

Is wrong for government to pick winners and losers. Is wrong for EV mandates. Vaccination mandates. Solar mandates. Any mandates.

EV is not a magic panacea for all that ails you. EV is far from being impractical. Long distance EV travel is different, not impractical. Up to 200 mile days are easier in the EV: no inconvenient 15 minute stops for gasoline, just 15 seconds to unplug in the morning, 15 seconds to plug in in the evening.

 

[drssg]

Contrary to spin, a $50,000 Tesla is as nice as any $50,000 ICE.

I guess that could come down to personal preference, but I disagree. The Tesla offers no dashboard gauges, no option for a heads-up display, and hardly any physical controls at all. The speedometer, stereo, climate control, and almost everything is controlled through the iPad-like display on the center console.

A lot of people seem fine with it, but I would find that unacceptably distracting. The general look appears stripped down and cheap to me.

 

[Jstpssng]

50K is too much for me to pay for any vehicle.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I guess that could come down to personal preference, but I disagree. The Tesla offers no dashboard gauges, no option for a heads-up display, and hardly any physical controls at all. The speedometer, stereo, climate control, and almost everything is controlled through the iPad-like display on the center console.

A lot of people seem fine with it, but I would find that unacceptably distracting. The general look appears stripped down and cheap to me.

Earlier this year I got caught in rush hour Nashville traffic in a new Model Y. This was the first time inside a Tesla and the hour was stressful due getting into the correct lane in time yet I made it back to the Tesla store ok. Surprisingly under stress the display was easy to figure out for this old man.

Being able to see all cars on the display saved the day. I need FSD. I couldn't get in a Model 3 due to my arthritis. Hopefully I will fit in the $35K version when it becomes available. Tesla is the only viable EV in my view except for the required cash.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

It took away good used cars from many people who can’t afford new cars. It drove up car prices by creating a shortage.
The US car industry should not have been bailed out. AND THE GOVERNMENT HAD NO BUSINESS TAKING OVER GM.

In the end it was a massive handout (payback) to the unions that supported a certain president.
Huge waste all the way around. But that was nothing compared to now.

No different than a certain president bailing out wall street...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Guys religion is outside the scope of this thread.