Backhoe backhoe plumbing

[kpk]

I recently built my own backhoe for my 2001 TC25D tractor and have it hooked up to a pto pump with a seperate reservoir. The setup works ok, but I didn't size the pump to the hose and fittings correctly so it bogs down if I go to full actuation. I went with 1/4 ID hose because that is what New Holland uses on their 758C BH. I guess my flow rate 11.6 gpm is just a bit too high. I noticed that the pump on the tractor puts out 7.1 gpm and that seems to work fine with their backhoe so that is what I am trying to do.

Now for my question. Has anyone hooked up a backhoe or other hydraulic rear implement in series to the FEL power beyond port? My dealer suggested that is a cheaper way to go rather than buying a rear remote kit. I guess I'm just a little confused as to where I would tap into the system and what the plumbing would look like. Do I connect at the FEL valve under the black cover on the fender or to the gray manifold on the side of the engine?

 

[PineRidge]

Try this thread as it has a lot of information on connnecting a BH click here

 

[hazmat]

<font color="blue"> I guess I'm just a little confused as to where I would tap into the system and what the plumbing would look like. Do I connect at the FEL valve under the black cover on the fender or to the gray manifold on the side of the engine </font>

There is a kit available from NH. Should be around $180 +/- gives you all the hoses. tubing and connectors to set up the power beyond.

Basically you get hydraulic pressure & flow at the rear of the tractor, but no control (valve). But you've got the valves on your backhoe. You have to shut the machine off to hook up the connectors. I think the plumbing runs from the engine manifold, but not certain. The rear remotes run off the three point hitch valve.

Got any pics of the hoe? I'd love to see them.

 

[kpk]

I read through the post, and it seems to only tell part of the story. It would be great if someone had a schematic of the hydraulic system and pictures of what each connection and/or port looked like.

I can't seem to get my head around what is connected to what and why the 3pt goes dead in some cases.

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> I can't seem to get my head around what is connected to what and why the 3pt goes dead in some cases. </font>

Your BH would be mounted over top of the 3-point hitch arms. If the 3-point hitch were functional and tried to come up I would suspect that it would either damage the BH or the hydraulic pump itself not good either way. I suspect that it is a safety thing more or less.

There should have been a schematic posted at the forum that I linked to that was supplied with my BH. I know that it's not real clear but if you purchase the power beyond kit directly from NH that will correctly match your BH to your tractor everything should be in the kit that you will need . I am sure there will be differences between my TC-40D hook-up and your tractor in general.

 

[kpk]

****! I took some pictures to show you guys last night and was all excited to post them. After digging into my camera bag I discovered that I forgot the cable to connect the camera to my work computer at home. Oh well. I'll have them for you shortly.

In the mean time. Does anyone have a hydraulic schematic for the entire tractor? How about for a FEL?

 

[kpk]

Well, here is my baby. I designed it myself taking some cues from the NH 758. I couldn't find the appropriate trunion mounted swing cylinders so I had to make adaptor sleeves to use conventional rod end cylinders. All the hydraulics are from Prince. The guys there were very helpful and I can't count the number of phone calls I made to them. The only thing that needs some tweaking is the pump and/or hose size. You can read about the problem in the beginning of this thread. I used Pro/Engineer to model everything in 3D cad. I do this for a living as I am a mechanical engineer. I have drawings for all the parts but as always I made some changes and groomed some parts to fit better along the way. The pins are 4140 hardened steel and I had them hard chromed hoping to get longer wear. NH said they use s.s. for some of their bushings at the pivot points. I find that hard to believe since s.s. makes a poor bearing material. It tends to gall. Anyway I used bearing bronze which may be a tad too soft. So I might have to replace them a little sooner than expected. Oh well. The thing performs really well. I rented a full size bh once, and of course it doesn't compare to that, but it does the job. I live in western central New Jersey where we have a lot of clay and rocks. Its amazing what hydraulics can do...
There are 4 pictures in total.

I am still interested if anyone has any thoughts on schematics or routing the plumbing to hook my bh up in series with the fel.

 

[kpk]

picture 2

 

[kpk]

picture 3

 

[kpk]

picture 4

 

[PineRidge]

Very, very nice job on the BH. If you would put the New Holland decals on it no one would be able to tell the difference.

 

[kpk]

Thanks PineRidge. I did change a bunch of stuff. The NH unit weighs about 1000 lbs give or take. Mine weighs about 1500 lbs. The bucket is heavier, plus the reservoir and pump add to the weight. Several of the high stressed parts were also made heavier. It was a big project. I thought I would save some money and get a getter bh. I didn't save much, but I got a better bh (I believe anyway). Essentially I have power pack that I can use for a log splitter or whatever I want now, the control valve is a series type so each cylinder sees the same pressure and you don't have to feather the stick like I have to do on the fel, the bucket is heavy duty, and I up'ed the cylinder sizes a tad from NH. NH cylinders are in increments of 1/4 inch (2 3/4...). Prince didn't other those so I went up to 3, etc. Now I just have to solve the bogging problem and I'm home free. The thing is definitely usable, just not optimized.

 

[PineRidge]

kpk I crawled under my TC-40D today and took some shots to show you how my BH connected via the power beyond connection. possibly you can use some of this information although I am not sure if it will apply to your model.

Anyway the first picture is a shot of the hydraulic manifold block/diverter valve located on the right underside of the tractor. Note that this picture was taken in the normal configuration and without the BH connected. The white arrow points to the block and the yellow arrow points to the quick connect where one of the 2 BH connections will be made. Once this quick connect is uncoupled the BH connection is then mated to the female portion of the quick connect.

 

[PineRidge]

The second picture is a shot of the end plate located in the right rear area of the tractor. This end plate picture was shot before I added my 3 rear remotes. The end plate has a male quick connect fitting indicated by the arrow where the second BH hydraulic connection is made.

When the BH is connected to the tractor your hydraulic 3-point lift and all rear remotes will be unusable. I believe this is a safety feature that New Holland uses to protect the hydraulic pump in case of a dead head condition.

Also note that all connections are made with the engine stopped. If the engine is started without either the BH or the rear hydraulics connect at the front connection then hydraulic pump damage will result in a very short time since a dead head condition will be present. Check all connections before starting your machine!

I hope some of this information helps you.

 

[kpk]

Thanks for the effort PineRidge. The pictures are helpful. I can't recall exactly, but I think my tractor's manifold block looks a little different. I think there are three rigid tubes connected to it. One is fairly large, and two are smaller. But to be sure, I'll go home and check it. No sense talking about it without knowing for sure.

 

[henryjacobjosh]

Great Work On the BH!!
Looks Good, especially theHyd level indicator. You must work in Industry. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Does your Bh mount with a subframe or does it use the 3-point hitch. If you do not require the 3pt I can take some pictures of the setup my dealer worked out for me. It uses a quick connector off the loader valve which feeds the 3-point and when used for the bh my 3pt is dead and I have hyd for the bh. I dont think it was a safety thing. Just a easy way for Hyd. I have no need for 3pt when bh is attached so, why not?
Let me know and if you think this might be what you want I will take some pics of the feed and return lines. My setup is on my TC30.
Hope I can help in some way. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[kpk]

Hey Hank,
Thanks for the compliment. My BH uses a subframe type mount. I position the 3pt arms then back up to the BH and make the connections to my reservoir and pto pump.

That being said, I would definitely be interested in your hydraulic connection pictures. What type of FEL do you have? NH 7308?

 

[henryjacobjosh]

Hi,

I will try this again. I just wrote you a long detailed post on my setup and when I spell checked it. BANG!!! the window closed /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif and I lost the whole post. Guess I will start putting my text on the clipboard before doing that again.
But Anyways..........
I did not have a chance to take any pics tonight /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif but I will however take some tommorow night and post them.
Just for a quick description on my Hyd. setup I will tell you briefly how my dealer set me up. It only took a little flexable hose and some quick connectors. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Not being a Hyd wizard, I will sum it up as this:
My feed hose for the BH runs up the subfame and has a quick connector. When I hook up my Bh I simply disconnect a hose which comes from my FEL valve to the manifold block and hook the hose from the FEL valve to the hose to the BH. The connector on the manifold block just gets a dust boot at this point and my 3pt no longer works.
The return line for the BH simply connects to a quick connector they installed in the side of the tractor Hyd sump. It does not get used when the BH is not attached.
Pretty simple and gets the job done.
My FEL is a 7308.
My valve however will be physically different than yours but it should be the same principal as far as the spool types etc.
My valve is attached to the right side of my dash and yours is a joystick on the right fender. It should work for you though.
I will be sure to post those pics as promised.

 

[henryjacobjosh]

Hi,

Here's the Pics as promised

 

[henryjacobjosh]

pic 2