Backhoe Mount

[shutt40]

Here is a drawing of my proposed backhoe mount.
The Black part mounts to the tractor and ties into the loader subframe and the axle brackets of my MF1529 (details TBD). The red portion stays on my LITW 7601 backhoe and connects to the backhoe 3pt mounting connections.
Any comments or suggestions for improvement are welcome.
Thanks, Frank

 

[john_bud]

At the bottom of the tractor side, make a guide to allow for miss-alignment of the hoe to tractor when putting it back on. You want to get close, but not have to be perfect.

jb

 

[Knight]

Okay, The tractor side only needs to have one pin on top and one on the bottom. Overkill to have three points on each side.
Now the pin on the bottom hooks on downward. Basically you have the backhoe mount hanging on the lower pin. But rethink this.....Once outriggers are down, the back of the tractor is lifted, so you want this setup to be the opposite way.
You would want the bottom pin to hook upward as the outriggers lift the tractor.

 

[Shield Arc]

I built this A-frame to mount my backhoe to the 3-point hitch of my JD 4200.

 

[shutt40]

Knight
That was why I went with 3 pins the bottom pin was just for alignment, to tilt it up into position. I have since looked at many other examples and decided to go with 2 and have the bottom pin hook upward as you said.
Here are some pics of what I have so far, no pins or cross bracing yet.
I'm planning to put brackets on the back and top of the axle at ROPS bolt locations as well as a cross brace just above the PTO shaft attached to the 2 upper bolt holes you can see in the one pic. Keep in mind it is only tack welded. As it is now it is bolted to the loader frame brace under the axle, I'm not sure if this will be good enough or if I should weld it to the loader frame brace as well. What do you think
Frank

 

[shutt40]

Shield Arc
Nice a-frame, but are you not worried about having all that weight on your 3pt top mount? Many people have bad things to say about 3pt backhoes, although I have yet to find an actual example of them breaking a tractor. I did find one guy on the net that broke his top mount
Frank

 

[Shield Arc]

Hi Frank!
No I'm not worried at all. I do not have an actual weight of my little backhoe, but I would guess well under a 1,000-pounds. Friend of mine is a mechanic at the local John Deere dealership; this is the way he recommended I build the backhoe mount. I remember clearly him saying you could pick the whole tractor up with that top mount.

 

[Knight]

Things are looking good.
I made a similar design. This is how I did it, if this helps you out at all???

I had a woods backhoe and I went to the woods web site and down loaded a subframe manual.
From this I made a cardboard template, played with it and made the pieces out of metal.
The subframe is supported by my Rops attachment point by the same bracket woods makes. Then just for extra security I use my 3 point top link for helping out. Woods doesn't use it, but I figured it could hurt and it might add a little support.
Let me know if this helps.
Bill

 

[teg]

Thanks for the idea, Knight... I was watching this thread to see how it comes out but making a sub-frame out of wood first (instead of cardboard) would work very well for me. Why I didn't think of that, is beyond me...

 

[shutt40]

Thanks Bill
I'll post updates as I go. Things have progressed a little slowly of late, it's cold here, -20 C, and I don't have heat in my garage. Oh well I have until spring to finish so no rush. You have to like the woods site, no shortage of free info there. Too bad more companies weren't willing to share manuals like that. If they have that much support on the website it makes you feel confident about the support you would receive if you purchased their products.
You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of your mount?
Thanks again for the advise and support.
Frank

 

[Shield Arc]

Here Frank I took a picture of the top mount for you, as you can see it's pretty hefty. I was going to build a sub-frame for my backhoe, only because I thought that is how it was done. Few years before buying my backhoe I had helped a neighbor mount a backhoe with a sub-frame on his Jinma tractor. My mechanic friend suggested this A-frame method so I wouldn't cut the clearance under the tractor. I've had this backhoe about 4-years now. I wish I wouldn't have bought it, (used). Didn't realize at the time what a piece of junk it was. It was designed and built to self-destruct! If anyone wants to know the name brand to stay away from, Hobby Horse built in Jerome Idaho.

 

[shutt40]

Shield Arc
That is a beefy top link mount, I'm impressed. Mine is not nearly that substantial, as you can see in the pictures, just a half inch plate bolted to the rear end with 2 half inch tabs welded on. That is why I'm going with the sub frame. It would probably still be ok but I don't want to take a chance. If it all works out it won't reduce my ground clearance when the backhoe is removed, the tractor half of the sub frame is no lower than the existing loader frame. My backhoe is a LITW 7601, South Korean, they have a good reputation from what info I found on the net and it was still $3000 CDN cheaper than buying the MF backhoe.
Frank

 

[Shield Arc]

Frank I was so naive when buying my backhoe! I paid $2,300 (US) for it. Guy said he had only used it a couple times; it was included in a package deal when he bought his dozer. I had no reason to doubt him, just by looking at the wear marks, and lack of paint on the buckets. In no time at all I could tell I was in trouble! The guy who builds these only uses 3/8-inch plate for the pin mounts for the hydraulic cylinders. In short order the 1-inch pins were ob-longing the holes in the plate. My fix, which seems to be working very well. I took some 2 1/2-inch round stock, drilled 1-inch holes in it, drilled and tapped for grease fittings and welded the round stock to the plates, also drilled the hydraulic cylinders too.

 

[MJPetersen]

shield arc,

The pins are not supposed to rotate in the end plates. Usually the pin retainer will have some form of stop to keep the pin from rotating. It can be in the form of a locating flat for a bolt/nut, an eye pin that is bolted to the side, a tab on the pin that is bolted to the side, or a retaining bolt through a collar. I see that yours does not have anything to keep the pin from rotating. Now you have fixed the problem in an admirable way, but if you drilled pin and collar on one side and placed a 1/4 or 5/16 bolt in it, then you would not have to grease the collars, just the cylinder.

You are right too in that 3/8ths is pretty thin for bearing for a pin.

Mike

 

[shutt40]

Shield Arc
Like Mike said you should secure your pins so they don't turn. Here is a pic of the same location on my backhoe. You can see the bolt in the one bushing that secures the pin. You could just drill through at one of you grease fitting locations and add a bolt. Mine also has gussets to prevent the side plates from spreading, this is a common problem on some of the cheaper backhoes.
Frank

 

[Shield Arc]

Just asking here don't mean to sound like a smart azz! But what difference does it make if the pins rotate or not? When I cut new longer pins from 1-inch cold rolled, I didn't use the locking system for the original pins that was in place when I bought the backhoe. My mindset was if the pins were allowed to rotate they would not flatten / wear as fast. What little I use this backhoe all the pins will still rotate by hand. I have been waiting to see if I develop any problems, like the plates spreading, then I would bolt the pins to stop the spreading
So educate me here!

Frank I like those closed end hydraulic cylinders better than the open ones that are on my backhoe! I would think the closed end ones would last a lot longer than mine!

 

[shutt40]

Shield Arc
I don't think it makes a big difference if the pins move, it does create an additional wear area and cutting your bushings off and replacing them would be a big job. The loader on my old tractor didn't have the pins secured, but I think most newer loaders and backhoe do. If you do notice that the pins are wearing you bushings then you can secure them, if not just use it as is.
You still probably got a good deal on your backhoe if all the hydraulics work good, it's easier to do a few structural repairs then to replace all the hydraulics.
Like you mine will only get occasional use so it should out last me.
Frank

 

[MJPetersen]

Shield Arc,

As I stated what you have done solved your problem. However, normally the pins are held in one position because it limits the places where wear can occur and therefore the parts and difficulty of repair. For example, in your BH if you use it enough that the bushings get sloppy, you will have 4 parts to replace and the outside bushings will have to be cut off and new ones welded on, with the resulting alignment problems and reaming out etc. This is at least a day's work with a bit of hassle. However, if the pin is retained and the bushing gets sloppy there are only the pin and the cylinder bushing to replace. This is only a couple 3 hours of work to pull the pin, drive out the old bushing, press in the new, ream it and put it back together.

Your cylinders are of the least expensive style. They can be made better by boring out the pin holes oversize and pressing in a bushing that exactly fits between the pin ears on the BH. It could be drilled for a grease fitting too.

Anyway, some of my ideas on why the pins are pinned.

Mike

 

[shutt40]

Well it finally warmed up enough to get back out in the garage. All the way up to -10 today.
I've added the side brackets and top brace to my backhoe mount now I just need to decide on pin locations, but I think I'll start on the backhoe half before I do that.
Here's a pic of the progress. Every thing clears the 3 point, I just have to take the lift arms off to install and remove the mount. Once it's done it won't have to come off again.
Any and all comments or ideas for improvement are welcome.
Frank

 

[shaley]

Try to lap weld the flat bar you are showing attached to the angle gusset tube versus the butt weld shown. Attaching with the method shown only allows for the tube wall to carry the load and it with not transfer the stress to the entire frame just deform the tube wall.