Backhoe Backhoe cylinder problem? (w/ video)

[CanuckPT]

I know that this thread is from 2011 but fast forward to 2013 & I'm having a similar problem but with my bucket, not my dipperstick! I was about to attach my new Bro-Tek thumb today when I realized my bucket was curling with just it's weight & gravity! I could physically pull the bucket back to its extended position & then let it go and it would curl on it's own with gravity. I did have to replace a hose on the backhoe last fall just after I got it as it had a hole (it only had 19.8 hours on it when I took delivery). I haven't really used it at all over the winter since replacing the hose. Could it just be air in the system? I don't see any leaks & my fluid levels seem fine. Or is this just normal? This is my first tractor so I'm a newbie!! Here's a video I took of it.

Kubota BH77 bucket - YouTube

I did work the actions of the BH after discovering the problem but didn't do any digging with it and the sagging improved but did not go resolve. I'm planning on trying to maybe try digging a couple of small stumps tomorrow and put it through it's paces to see if that improves it's performance. Any suggestions would be welcome. I only have 29 hours on the tractor at this time & for the 10 hours I've owned it, the BH has only been used for maybe 30 minutes.

 

[roman]

Glad to hear the dealer had a concience and sees more than $$$.

 

[BobsMassey]

Wow, I just got my tractor with backhoe and loader within the last month, I've got 30 hrs. On it and most of that is using the hoe to dig a trench, and dig out stumps ! Good luck with yours it does sound like air in the system

 

[CanuckPT]

I worked the BH this am doing some stump digging & generally working the bucket & no real change. Here's a new video I did in case the audio helps.

http://youtu.be/JdTJ1ZipaRE

 

[Gordon Gould]

If you have used the hoe then the air should be out of it. And if you are sure there are no leaks. That leaves a bad leaky valve or valve control handle linkage misadjusted or a bad cylinder with by-pass leakage. Must be under warrenty ?? I would call the dealer. He may have a test procedure. But if you want to find out if it is in the cylinder or the valve then extend the bucket and let it rest on the ground. Shut down the machine. Operate the valve to releive any pressure. Disconnect the hydraulic lines from the cylinder, trying not to let any fluid flow out of the cylinder, plug the two cylinder ports with plug fittings, thus sealing the cylinder. Start the machine and lift the bucket off the floor. (Dont touch the extend/curl control of course ). If the bucket curls on it's own like it does now then the cylinder has severe internal by-pass leakage. Which seems unlikely to me for a new unit but you never know. If the bucket is solid then you have a control valve problem like a bad seal, or broken spring, or there is something misadjusted in the linkage.
Hope this helps. Note that I know nothing about your hoe. This is just a generic test to isolate a drifting cylinder problem.

 

[CanuckPT]

It's under warranty still so I'm going to make it Kubota's problem!!!

 

[CanuckPT]

I spoke with the local Kubota dealer about what appears to be a leaking seal in the bucket cylinder. Evidently my BH is out of warranty (since Oct) but the dealers going to go to bat for me with Kubota to see if they'll cover the cost of the cylinder seal replacement out of good will. I removed the cylinder this afternoon & I'm going to run it up to the dealer Wed am. Here's hoping! I want it working 100%!!!

 

[Grandad4]

I'm supposing the tractor was not brand new when you bought it since it's from 2011 and you got it last fall. It may be that whoever previously had it and blew the hose that you replaced also damaged the seal that's now leaking down. Sounds like my form of bad luck that it waits until the warranty is out and you are the proud owner. Hope the dealer treats you right. An alternative is that any competent hydraulics shop should also be able to do a re-build at a fair price.

 

[CanuckPT]

Grandad4 you're correct - I purchased my 2011 "used" in October 2012 with only 19.8 hours on it when I took delivery. I bought it from a dealer in PA. The hose is a mystery - I'm certain they would have picked up on it had it been a problem when they had it doing the pre-delivery check. I now have about 32 hours on it - I can say that in the 32 hours of it's useful life, I've only ran the backhoe about 1.5. I obviously can't say how many of the 19.6 hours it had on when when it was traded were put on the BH but in any case - it's safe to say that it hasn't seen a lot of work. I too am hoping that Kubota will see it this way. The seal kit was about $123 & the service manager figures 1 to 1.5 hours labor so if it's not covered it's looking like a $200 - $250 fix.

 

[CanuckPT]

Thought you'd be interested to know the barrel's f-d up & that's tearing up the seals. It's all pitted I guess. Kubota's blowing me off but the dealer I purchased from is going to see what they can do. $580 quote to repair.

 

[crazyal]

Do you have any interest in fixing it yourself? Since it's at the dealer right now you could have them break loose the gland nut and do the rest of the work yourself and save some money and learn how to replace seals. If you are not sure if you're up to it but would be willing to try I'm sure we could talk you through it. If you're planning on owning your tractor for some time sooner or later you will need to change a seal so it's worth learning how to do. Changing the barrel or ram is easy when doing a seal. Of course it would only make sense if only the barrel or the ram is bad, if both are then you might as well replace the whole thing. It also wouldn't make sense if the price for the whole cylinder is close to the price of the barrel and seal.

 

[CanuckPT]

I'm definitely in the tractor game for the long haul Crazyal & I'm willing to learn how to do this kind of stuff but in this case it appears that the dealer I purchased from in PA is going to step in & help me out. To what extent I'm not yet sure but it's looking more promising now than if was this AM!!

 

[caspar3259]

Grandad4 you're correct - I purchased my 2011 "used" in October 2012 with only 19.8 hours on it when I took delivery. I bought it from a dealer in PA.

Maybe your situation is different, but mine was a "rental" unit... got it with 89 hours and it was sold as new with full 2 year warranty. I suppose if someone bought it, then returned it maybe it did not come with the usual warranty.

-Jeff

 

[CanuckPT]

Latest update. The local dealership I took the bucket cylinder to replaced the seals in the cylinder but found that there was a lot of "pitting" - quoted me $580 to have it repaired. I called Marshall Machinery in PA where I bought the tractor and they've gone to bat for me!! They had the cylinder UPS'd to them and have had it sent out to a local hydrualics guy there for repair so the good news is, it appears that the problem is being takend care of by the dealership I purchased from.

However, both dealerships had mentioned that pitting is often a sign of water in the hydraulic fluid. This tractor only had 19.8 hours on it when I took delivery and has been garaged since I bought it in October except for 1 night.

Is there any other reason that pitting would occur? I'm now freaking out wondering if there's a systemic problem with water (if there is any water at all) that's eating away at other vital parts of my tractor that only has 32 hours on it!!

 

[Grandad4]

I think the BH77 runs off the tractor's hydraulics, right? If so, and there's concern about moisture in the backhoe hydraulics, you would have to worry that there might also be water in the tractor's plumbing as well. Maybe it was just the backhoe, from sitting so long, but you'd want to be sure the tractor is OK. Is there any cloudiness to the HST juice?

 

[CanuckPT]

I think the BH77 runs off the tractor's hydraulics, right? If so, and there's concern about moisture in the backhoe hydraulics, you would have to worry that there might also be water in the tractor's plumbing as well. Maybe it was just the backhoe, from sitting so long, but you'd want to be sure the tractor is OK. Is there any cloudiness to the HST juice?

Correct Grandad4. The BH77 does run off the tractor's hydraulics & that's precisely my concern. I'm a complete newbie to tractor ownership. Where does it make the most senses to check for cloudiness? At the fill? Dipstick? Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Grandad4]

My tractor is an older one with a sightglass for viewing the HST fluid level located next to the PTO shaft. However, I think they changed to a dipstick setup with later models. I guess you'd look at the dipstick to see if there's any milkiness or cloudiness to the HST fluid. It should be a clear, slightly amber color. If there's any doubt, verify your bank account and contemplate doing a fluid/filter change.

 

[CanuckPT]

Great news! My backhoe cylinder was repaired by Marshall Machinery (in PA where I purchased it) & it arrived today! It's all reinstalled, fluid topped off (I will do my 50 hour service early & replace all the fluid with SUTD when I get the chance to pick up some fluids & filters. Back in the saddle, now to get some seat time in!! Thanks for your advice!!!