B7510 VS the JD4110

flusher · Jul 2, 2005

FYI- the Kubota dealer in Redding, CA delivered my B7510HST with LA302 FEL last Wednesday. Cost: $12600 + about $750 sales tax.

Visited TSC in Red Bluff CA and picked up a 48" KK brush hog for $695 and a 48" box blade for $395. I probably could have done better on price if I wanted to drive a 120 miles to Sacramento.

Unloaded the hog from the back of my F150 by chaining it to the FEL. Really glad I had the dealer weld three chain hooks on the bucket. With my 200 lb in the seat and the 425-lb hog cantilevered from the FEL, the balance was a little light and I managed to bounce the rear tires when I lowered the hog to the garage floor. No harm done, just a fun ride. I definitely will make one of those concrete counterweights for the 3-pt hitch real soon.

btolle · Jul 2, 2005

( I am also going through the JD/Kubota comparison.------------<SNIPPED>---------------
The 7510 is priced much better than the others (only outrageous vs. obscene). My main concern, does a 7510 have enough power to cut tall wet grass at “fast as possible without being thrown” speeds? Would prefer a rear discharge MMM due to side chute catching on my ample pasture fencing, none other than Kioti offers this from my observations. That leaves one with a mulching kit option and then brings up the power question.....is 17PTO-HP 7510 enough to power a mulching deck through tall wet Bahia and Bermuda grasses?

My main complaint about all of the choices is no easy way to slow down for bumps then resume the same speed as I am currently able to do with an old manual trans Craftsman. Just push in the cutch to slow a bit then let it back out and on your way while the mower never slows. This is also a good way for the mower to catch up if it should bog. The CUT’s I’ve been looking at have a crude cruise control plus the Kubota hydro has a clutch. One can set cruise and hit the clutch if bumps are encountered, but it slows/stops the mower deck, not truly a live independent PTO. If one uses the Hydro pedal only you can back off that, but then how to resume a speed known to be right for cut quality without going too fast? I notice the 2630 attempts to address this with marked numbers on the cruise, and JD’s attempt is electronic cruise, but only on the 4210 and larger, both probably too big for my property.

I want a Kioti loader (higher lift) I like to use a loader in place of a step-ladder and rear discharge MMM and Kubota known reliability and light weight and smaller size, and I want JD’s 72” cut with 24HP, and I want it at half the cost.

------------<SNIPPED>---------------
)

Sounds to me like you need to buy the Kioti since the rear discharge and loader issues are major. And maybe the Kioti is cheaper.

Personally I thought the price for my B7510 was quite reasonable, but then I prefer quality to cheap.

Bill Tolle

orangebluegreen · Jul 3, 2005

When I first started looking at small tractors I was initially attracted to Kioti because they “looked right” length to width to height etc. I’m an old racer and in years past the wisdom was “if a car looked right it probably was”. I too first believed the hype they were less money. I suppose some might take that at face value and believe it, but the truth is Kioti cost more. I suppose if one buys a Kubota from an overpriced dealer they may think Kubota cost more, but I have priced both machines to enough extent I can say the Kioti is more. So my problem with Kioti is my local dealer no longer sells them. Most of the Kioti dealers appear small operations without deep enough pockets to stay in business. Kioti may have been around a long time under the Daedong name, but I know no one personally who has years of experience with them. So in my opinion if we the public are being asked to be the guinea pigs for a product, we should be rewarded for that “risk” with a lower price than a known quality (Kubota). In my opinion Kioti has not attained enough brand recognition to be arrogant on price. Another issue is Kioti weight is about 4-500 lbs more than 75-7610, not desired for mowing.

My main reason for posting is to find out if the Kubota 7510 has enough power for tall wet grass, and preferably at higher speeds. I may even decide new ZTR and used bigger series tractor. I see better deals on larger tractors than the CUT’s and I have a ¼ mile rutted limerock road that needs maintained which I did not intent to do with a CUT. Since I live in an area where the dealers are such low volume a trial run is pretty difficult, I am conptemplating is the 16-1900 dollars more for a 7610 necessary? If I can conclude 20-21HP is enough, that might open the door to CK20, but Kioti has no 24HP small frame option like the 7610/2410. They are all a compromise depending on need for sure. I prefer the 2410, but so far all I’ve seen is high prices on them. I see the same used tractors for sale for months and if you inquire about them they disappear from the market days later. I’m not talking about scam tractors that don’t really exist either. So where are the good used tractors going? I know they must be out there somewhere but it appears dealers don’t want the public to get hold of them, I suspect dealers snap up fairly priced ones made available by the public. I saw the same thing played out with Honda vehicles. They had used vehicles priced so high, a new one was the only choice. Nice way to justify new prices by making sure the used market is over inflated. I am currently seeing BX2200’s (which are plentiful) being advertised for the same or more than a new 2230. It makes no sense other than making over priced new tractors appear a value. My experience with internet boards has shown them to be full of shills where “everything is wonderful” with little real performance issues discussed and almost every dealer I have asked about floating decks vs. suspended etc....have NO IDEA what I’m talking about. Does Kubota not have a salesman education program? I find it incredible a guy spends his entire day dealing with these vehicles yet knows little about them. The salesman probably makes very little on these small tractors, so that could be the problem, but I highly doubt they know any more about half million dollar equipment either. I have read here people have good results talking directly to Kubota about questions, so I intend to do this in the future rather than ask a dealer.

BTW....this is not directed at anyone in particular, just observations.

btolle · Jul 3, 2005

I have a B7510 with 4' bush hog and it does nicely in 2' tall weeds that are not too thick. I can hear it change RPM's just a little if I hit a real thick spot.

If you need larger than a 4' bush hog or want to finish in a hurry the B7510 will probably not be enough horsepower for you.

I mowed about 3 acres yesterday that has hundreds of pine trees and it took me 4 hours. I could do it in 2 if it were treeless.

Given your circumstances you might be better off with a ZTR and a used larger tractor. The CUT's do have their limitations.

I had an 8N and sometimes wish I still had it even though it had a lot less power. It did have better ground clearance and position control.

I know that my Kubota dealer here wholesales most of the tradein's to someone. The only thing they will keep is a late model in pristine condition. If I were looking for a used tractor I would ask him how to get in touch with the wholesaler and see what he had. You might try asking a couple of dealers about who they wholesale to.

Bill Tolle

jackl · Jul 3, 2005

I have a B7510HST with a LA302 FEL and Bush Hog 60" Finish Mower. I paid $14,400 for the whole package. I was quoted $16,100 for the B7610, but I didn't bargain on it as I did with the 7510. It would have been nice to have the extra HP, but the 7510 has suited me just fine. I mow 1.5 acres of lawn and another 1.5 acres of fields with lots of trees and it does a great job on both. It just turned 22 hours today. My only regret is that I think I should have gotten the industrial tires instead of turf. However, my dealer said he exchange them if I wanted.

DK35vince · Jul 3, 2005

( I suppose some might take that at face value and believe it, but the truth is Kioti cost more. I suppose if one buys a Kubota from an overpriced dealer they may think Kubota cost more, but I have priced both machines to enough extent I can say the Kioti is more. )

That may be true in your area, it is definately not true in mine.
Kubota in my area is considerable more expensive.
I did not take it at face value, I priced both and saw it for myself, thanks.
Area seems to play a huge part in pricing.

orangebluegreen · Jul 11, 2005

So far the lowest prices without beating up on the dealer the Kubota has been 500. less on B7510 Turf Special with 60” MMM and LA302 loader vs. CK20 with 60” rear discharge MMM and Kioti loader. These prices are out of my state, prices in state have been a wider margin of inequity and much higher.

Off the financing topic....

The more I read the more I learn. According to specs on Kioti’s site, the rear discharge MMM only lowers to 2.5” vs. side discharges 1.65”, a consideration for my main yard Bermuda grass that likes being cut as low as a golf course green. The outer perimeter of Bahia doesn’t matter height wise. There are so many errors on the various sites regarding specs, it’s hard to use them. For instance, Kioti’s site shows a 72” rear discharge MMM having height range of 3/8 to 3/8, and Kubota shows the same engine bore x stroke on several tractors with largely different cubic inches, this cannot be correct.

A major concern is mandrel/bearing reliability as it has been a thorn on the Craftsman rider. In my opinion the Craftsman deck spindles are inadequate and I have replaced several (lost count how many) over the years due to bearing failure. The Craftsman are not greaseable and the bearing cannot be replaced, $70. each time. I noticed Kioti’s deck uses sealed non-greaseable vs. Kubota’s greaseable mandrels. Obviously design loads have to be correct, but I’m curious what reliability has been between Kioti mandrel vs. Kubota’s? I see New Holland offers a rear discharge MMM so looking at that also. I read through the “grease thread” but have not seen mention of mandrel bearing failure. Perhaps they are designed properly unlike what I’ve experienced with Craftsman.

I like the decks on Walker ZTR’s, if the pictures are accurate, looks like all the blades are shaft driven allowing a huge blade overlap. I can fabricate or adapt almost anything, hmm... 74” Walker deck on a Kubota small frame.