Automaker will sell auto powered by air!

[coffeeman]

As the price of gas goes up the ideas start flowing. I sometime suspect a solution for energy to power cars will come out of left field. It will be so simple that folks will wonder why it hadn't been thought of before.

How's this for an idea? India's largest automaker will sell 6000 cars next year; powered by air. A 125 mile range and powered by a tank of 340 liters of air at 4350 psi. Can do 68 mph and can be filled up at home in 4 hours. A special filling station can fill air tank in 4 minutes. It's called CityCAT and will sell for $12,700. A fellow named Guy Negre designed the engine for a company called MDI. Saw a news clip in Popular Mechanics.

Cheers Coffeeman

 

[DieselPower]

That sure seems like a good range for only 12.0069 cubic feet of air. I would be interested to see how the "motor" operates. Some type of vane powered air motor?

 

[MadDogDriver]

France will be manufacturing the AirCar (initially) and it's been all over the news recently (overseas). Let's hope they don't have the same problems that AirBus has had. The MDI Air Car - the world´s cleanest car.

 

[turnkey4099]

Please! Not that old scam. MDI started promoting that pipe dream at least 10 years ago. Anyone who knows anything at all about compressors and energy conversion efficiency knows that those claims are impossible. Picture a compressor that runs off house current (even 220) that can compress air up to those pressures in 4 hours. Picture the huge amount of heat that would have to be gotten rid of while pressurizing. Now picture the block of ice that would form on the tank while it was in use. Can you say 'energy loss at both ends?" I knew you could. Picture just how far that size tank could push a car.

The original claim (and it was refreshed about every 2 years) was that factories were already being built in Africa and Mexico. Oddly, no-one could even find an address for the supposed factory building the prototypes in France. Even the pictures of the prototypes posed outside that factory were obvious models.

Try a google for 'amazing air car' Some real fascinating discussions on various forums.

Harry K

 

[MadDogDriver]

If it's a scam, then it's the best one I've seen yet. YouTube - Air Car from France (1 of 2)

 

[Bandybear]

I have to agree with Turney. While these things may work, are they going to save energy, or require more. They look pretty to the environmentalists because they are low or zero emissions vehicles, but the energy to power them has to come from somewhere, so the emissions are generated at that point. And like Turnkey said, you are constantly losing power to heat whenever you go from one form of power to another, so will the power plant be putting out more emissions than an internal combustion engine would?

The emissions from the electrical generation plants could be minimized by the use of nukes, but the enviros do not want to hear that N word in this country. And everyone from Tennessee can tell you what happens when you want to build a hydro plant.

When the market is ready, we will see a shift from internal combustion engines to some other form of power for our transportation devices, but it will probably never be emissions free. Meanwhile, I am glad we do not have to worry about all of the road apple emissions from the previous power mode.

 

[Bird]

Not that old scam

Now my first inclination is to agree that it can't be done. But of course when I first heard of television, I knew you couldn't send pictures through the air; no way. And this Internet business has to be a figment of your imagination. Nothing could send that much information all over the world that fast. And cell phones? A few years ago, we were told that all available frequencies for radio were in use and no more were available for anything.

So, yep, I don't see how that air car could work either, but who knows?

 

[the_sandman_454]

An air compressor powerful enough to generate 4000+ PSI of air in a decent volume will pull a good bit of electricity. This means taxing the already heavily taxed (in some areas) electrical grid by using that electricity. What happens when a blackout results from everybody wanting to run one of these? Another problem is the pressure and volumes. I can operate on an air bottle the size of about 4-5 liters at 4000psi for about 30 minutes give or take (SCBA). I find it difficult to imagine an air motor with enough torque to propel a vehicle at up to 68mph would be efficient enough to last 125 miles on that small of a charge of air. Plus the thermal issues the individuals mentioned earlier, extreme heating when compressing, and the tank would get quite cool from the air being removed from the vehicle's tank during operation.

 

[scott_vt]

Mornin Coffeman,
Interesting if nothing else ! Im slightly familiar with the size compressor it takes to fill SCBA bottles to 4500 psi at our fire station. Its a big compressor generating considerable heat,and taking considerable electical resourses, sorry I dont have any facts or figures to support that ! But I would want to see all those figures in black and white before I form any firm opinions ! But thats just me, not a non believer, just cautiously apprehensive ! Im sure they are doing as claimed but would like to see the black and white energy analysis, especially using electic rates from the northeast !

 

[Bandybear]

So, yep, I don't see how that air car could work either, but who knows?

It certainly can work, it using old steam engine technology, of using a gas under pressure to drive a piston. (Even the internal combustion engines (ICE)operate on the same prinicipal.)

My point is that they are just displacing the point where the emissions are taking place. Instead of coming out the tailpipe of the vehicle, the emissions are coming out the smokestack at the generating plant. With that in mind, I am wondering if the vehicle would get more miles per gallon if it were powered by a conventional ICE or more mileage from the same amount of fuel used to generate the electricity to power the compressor to compress the air to power the vehicle.

In my view, if the energy losses involved in converting the fuel into electricity into compressed air required that more fuel be used, then indeed this is another eco-scam.

 

[GaryM]

According to the website http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html## The engine actually can run on fossel fuels and compress air at the same time. Doesn't exactly sound like a "car that runs on air".

 

[Dozernut]

My son and I have air guns that we pump up to 2000 psi and we do this with a hand pump. It takes about 20-30 minutes and we have to stop to bleed off water and let the pump cool for a couple of minutes. This also gives me time to recover, I might like to run with the big dogs but the old body doesn't. There are compressors out there made to pump up the air guns but they are a little expensive, about $1200. The compressors that fill the scuba tanks are bigger and will go to 4500 psi but they do not take hours to fill a tank. the compressor technology is out there but I think the air powered car might be a PT Barnum specialty. I hope that I am wrong and it proves to be a viable alternate.

 

[MadDogDriver]

It certainly can work, it using old steam engine technology, of using a gas under pressure to drive a piston. (Even the internal combustion engines (ICE)operate on the same prinicipal.)

My point is that they are just displacing the point where the emissions are taking place. Instead of coming out the tailpipe of the vehicle, the emissions are coming out the smokestack at the generating plant. With that in mind, I am wondering if the vehicle would get more miles per gallon if it were powered by a conventional ICE or more mileage from the same amount of fuel used to generate the electricity to power the compressor to compress the air to power the vehicle.

In my view, if the energy losses involved in converting the fuel into electricity into compressed air required that more fuel be used, then indeed this is another eco-scam.

A possible eco-scam is something I agree with. They have yet to generate a real perpetual motion machine, but I know MIT and similar schools are working hard at trying to minimize the energy loss within vehicles.

 

[turnkey4099]

Well they have been promoting this thing for over 10 years now. At one time they claimed factories were being built in S Africa, Mexico and IIANM Brazil. That was about 10 years ago. They still haven't put one working car on display where real engineers can test it. There are sstill no factories and for sure there are no working prototypes out there.

The energy conversion losses alone make it a loser from the start. It would be far more efficient to just use the electricity to charge batteries. At leat that would yield a working car...oh, that's right it is already being done and has been for several decades already.

Every time I this subject comes up, I look at their web site. Amazing how the claims have changed over the years. IIRC the original version had something about 'burning air' and there was no IC assist power. Now I see it is down to having to sign up to even get any real info on it (no, I didnt' bother).

Harry K

Harry K

 

[coffeeman]

My son and I have air guns that we pump up to 2000 psi and we do this with a hand pump. It takes about 20-30 minutes and we have to stop to bleed off water and let the pump cool for a couple of minutes. This also gives me time to recover, I might like to run with the big dogs but the old body doesn't.

So in an hour or two you can fill up your air car and your ready to go? I can see the news now. 200 million people filling up their car air tanks by pumping the old fashion way. So the increase in exercise causes 200 million people to eat more bread. Thus, leads the way to a huge shortage of wheat and another national crisis. Millions of barrels of oil used to run tractors to harvest the extra wheat needed to power the people who power the cars. Net result; more pollution.

Cheers

 

[coffeeman]

coffeeman
I do not think I would want to pump up anything by hand to over 4000 psi. The only point I was making is that it does not take hours for a high pressure compressor to reach 4500 psi. If you would like to borrow my hand pump to pump up your air car, you are welcome to borrow it and I would buy you a loaf of bread. With all the caffeine I assume you intake, with the moniker you sport, you could probably pump that sucker up in 10 minutes LOL.
The air guns are a hoot until it comes time to refill the air reservoir. They shoot hard and flat about 1400 fps and have a rotary clip and will shoot match grade.
Have a good one.

Hey Doze

Point well taken.

Thanks for the offer for free bread. I can use all the bread I can get.
After coffee #5 I bet I could refill a big tank in 8 min. Especially if there is free bread in the deal.

Cheers... Coffeeman

 

[turnkey4099]

coffeeman
I do not think I would want to pump up anything by hand to over 4000 psi. The only point I was making is that it does not take hours for a high pressure compressor to reach 4500 psi. If you would like to borrow my hand pump to pump up your air car, you are welcome to borrow it and I would buy you a loaf of bread. With all the caffeine I assume you intake, with the moniker you sport, you could probably pump that sucker up in 10 minutes LOL.
The air guns are a hoot until it comes time to refill the air reservoir. They shoot hard and flat about 1400 fps and have a rotary clip and will shoot match grade.
Have a good one.

Sorta depends on the size of the reservoir. Then there is the problem of getting rid of the heat (wasted energy)... You aren't going to find any compressor capable of those kinds of pressure installed in a homeowners garage.

Harry K

 

[MossRoad]

There is an outdoor childrens park in Rapid City, South Dakota that has a little blue train engine with yellow trim. It is only about 4 feet high and six feet long. Odd thing is, there is no motor on it, only an air tank. As I recall, it is an air powered locomotive for use in underground mines. The plaque said it could run for 4 hours on one charge. And it was very safe because there was no combustion engine to cause fires. Mines always have a source of compressed air. It was pretty cool. I have a picture of it around somewhere, just can't locate it now.

Of course, its pretty obvious that the energy required to pump that sucker up would be huge. I don't think it would save any energy at all. It would, however, save on emissions in the area it operated, but not in the area where the compressor got its power from, unless that power was electricity generated by solar, wind, water or nuker.

 

[SPYDERLK]

for use on windy days?
larry