Atlas Copco Post Driver

[Haoleguy]

Turns out that I have about 1400 vineyard lineposts(8 ft metal) to install pretty soon over a 5 acre area and I have been pouring over my options. If I can I may just push them in with a channel beam attached to my buddy's tractor bucket. However, with the stonyness of my soils(sandy loam) I'm planning for a backup plan which I think will need to be used. My first thought was renting a Rhino pneumatic PD55 post driver and the required diesel compressor to tow up and down the rows. At ~$800 for a weeks rental and the realization I need to do 200 post/day to keep the rental costs down I started to think I might need more days and thus higher cost. In doing a little web surfing I came across a very cool idea from Spika Welding ..... Hydraulic PowerPak | Agriculture | Industry Specific Solutions . Turns out they make a nice narrow ATV trailer to support metal fence post pounding which includes a hydraulic post pounder powered by a Honda run hydraulic pump system....cool idea by the Spika folks. In looking around a bit more I found that the Spika wagon is using an Atlas Copco hydraulic driver. In looking over Atlas' website I found the following driver which appears to be matched well for most of our tractor hydraulic SCVs ....... http://www.atlascopco.us/usus/products/product.aspx?id=1602195. In looking over past forum thread it appears someone else raised the question about the utility of these drivers but received little direct information. My question is does anyone have or used one of these directly from their tractor hydraulics? How did it perform compared to other drivers like the Rhino pneumatic drivers? Pricing seems to be pretty inconsistent between vendors and hits a wide range with the lower end approaching my potential Rhino-compressor rental costs. Again, please let me know if you have experience with the Atlas Copco drivers......Thank you, Gary

 

[oldnslo]

In reading the specs on the Atlas Copco site it shows flow rates over 300 GPM. Not sure if this is return flow rate from the hammer or just a typo. Also shows blows/min at 30 liters which is around 8 GPM. Atlas also states that they have control valves for open and closed center systems.

I would suspect that you will need a return line direct to tank for this like most other post drivers. If you can get your tractor close enough to where the posts are to be driven and this does not aerate the fluid to much your tractor hydraulics should work.

NOTE: I have no personal knowledge of this hammer though.

 

[JimRB]

For some reason I recall (15 years ago) 3 minutes a post driving 4x4 wooden posts in moist Georgia clay with occasional hidden rocks using a Shaver post driver. I had put points on the posts and that was not part of the math. I would hope that T posts would go faster. The other number I recall was an hour per 100 foot roll of wire which might have been weave, stretch and nail after the posts were installed.

 

[Haoleguy]

In reading the specs on the Atlas Copco site it shows flow rates over 300 GPM. Not sure if this is return flow rate from the hammer or just a typo. Also shows blows/min at 30 liters which is around 8 GPM. Atlas also states that they have control valves for open and closed center systems.

I would suspect that you will need a return line direct to tank for this like most other post drivers. If you can get your tractor close enough to where the posts are to be driven and this does not aerate the fluid to much your tractor hydraulics should work.

The high flow rate in gpm is a misprint. The unit for open and closed systems is 5-8 gpm. My concern is the max pressure of my little Landini hydraulics is 2600psi which is higher than there operating pressure. I do have a no pressure return setup if needed. ...Gary

 

[leonz]

Have you looked at the propane hammer for driving T posts?


Sign Post Driver | Propane Hammer



Either way using the atlas copco with an air compressor and hearing protection or the propane hammer would be the best way unless you invest in the high end Shaffer as it will have lots of power.

Please use ear plugs as they are the best for hearing protection.

 

[JimRB]

For my little JD I went to the hardware store and got a fitting that fits the hydraulic fill plug in the back of the tranny. I rigged up hoses to act as a return when using the Shafer post driver. Probably a bit too small but it still thumped the posts just fine. I rigged up a hose from my front loader quick disconnect and a bungie cord to tap a supply line. Plenty of ways to jerry rig something if you do not have hydraulic connections at the back of a tractor. Also if you were worried about pressure you just do not run the throttle high. Lower rpms and lower pressure.

 

[creekbend]

Have you looked at the propane hammer for driving T posts?


Sign Post Driver | Propane Hammer



Either way using the atlas copco with an air compressor and hearing protection or the propane hammer would be the best way unless you invest in the high end Shaffer as it will have lots of power.

Please use ear plugs as they are the best for hearing protection.

I like the concept, but I find the cost, somewhat prohibitive. Thanks for posting. I love to gain knowledge.

 

[Haoleguy]

There seems to be differences in the way in which many of these drivers/hammers take a stroke and recoil....many small blows or fewer bigger blows. I am leaning towards the fast small stroke type which can be stood up on post and has a hand control off the driver such that tall posts can be driven without being on ladder.....hard hat of course......Gary

 

[MarkV]

If your in a vineyard area I have to wonder if some of the other growers in the area would have a post driver you could rent. It is not like they use them everyday so there have to be a few sitting in barns.

MarkV

 

[Haoleguy]

If your in a vineyard area I have to wonder if some of the other growers in the area would have a post driver you could rent. It is not like they use them everyday so there have to be a few sitting in barns.

MarkV

One thing I did not mention is that I had the plants planted by a laser system which means the plants go in first and trellis later. Additionally, my planting is a high density(7 ft rows by 4 ft between plants) and are tall grafted plants(think 26 inch tall plants) which means that the only access for the line posts is by small "manual" driver or a larger driver with side shift capability....the Wheatheart trailer model which I can rent has the side shift capability but the trailer is too wide for my rows. For the black locust end posts I am indeed renting a Fairchild High & Heavy hitter from a local farmer but it does not have the side shift capability for going down the rows. I do have a number of feelers out locally to see who might have something that would work for my situation.........Gary

 

[leonz]

Are you planning on irrigating the five acres and is this why you are using so many posts?


A propane hammer will be much less work and you can through enough bundles of posts in what ever your
using to haul freight in the vineyard for either one or two rows per pass as you will be able to set two posts at
every move as long as you have set two lines on both sides by driving a few posts at the midpoint of the acre
or what ever length of row you have. after you set the posts move the lines to the next rows to be reused.


You should set a a few post half way down the row and then use the pink flourescent nylon twine
to line up the row for the rest of the posts easily.

What thickness of wire are you using? Will you be using perforated T posts or solid T posts to hold 2 rows of wire using fence post wire anchors?

How are you intending on stretching the wire?
Are you or did you buy all you supplies from a vineyard supply company?

 

[Haoleguy]

Leonz - Thanks for the questions. Line posts are to be no farther apart than 24ft but it is recommended that 18-20 ft is the target especially for high wind areas like mine. I have 36 rows at ~770ft long. The line post placement will be easy as the vines are straight as can be but vertical straightness will be either as you mentioned or by level. Wire is all 12.5 gauge hi tensile with a total of 7 lines per row minimum. Posts are the 12 gauge Mannwerks posts and can be found down this page ...... Trellising Division of Spec Hardware - Vineyard Trellising and Trellising Hardware . Black locust ~6 to 7 diameter provides the end posts set in 42-48" and are anchored with 40" screw anchors. Only one wire needs to be tight and I will use Gripples at both ends which allows for retightening as the wire stretches. I used a combination of local foresters and hardware stores when possible but for many items I used 2 vineyard specialty companies.....Cheers, Gary

 

[J_J]

For my little JD I went to the hardware store and got a fitting that fits the hydraulic fill plug in the back of the tranny. I rigged up hoses to act as a return when using the Shafer post driver. Probably a bit too small but it still thumped the posts just fine. I rigged up a hose from my front loader quick disconnect and a bungie cord to tap a supply line. Plenty of ways to jerry rig something if you do not have hydraulic connections at the back of a tractor. Also if you were worried about pressure you just do not run the throttle high. Lower rpms and lower pressure.

Not true on the pressure.

Pressure is the result of the load on the hyd.

The speed of operation/GPM is the result of engine rpm.

The pressure problem if any, can be solved by an external relief valve. Adjust as necessary to protect the implement.

Have you considered a demolition hammer using either electric using a generator, or a hyd demolition hammer.

 

[MarkV]

Have you considered a demolition hammer using either electric using a generator, or a hyd demolition hammer.

That is a good idea JJ. We use to drive 8' copper grounding rods with a rotary hammer in heavy clay and it worked like a champ. I'd bet an electric demo hammer and a portable generator for T posts would be much less costly than some of the other alternatives.

MarkV

 

[City Farmer]

I bought one for these from HF to remove some concrete foundation pads under the rental crawl space and some other demo work, It worked like a charm. I made a 10" spud to remove tile by cutting off the point and welding on a wedge. If you cut the point off and welded a pipe on I bet it would pound those post pretty easy. I bought the extra warranty and have used the heck out of it, I bet I put a hard 100hrs on it. I'd Buy the the hammer with the 20% off coupon. You'll know after the first couple of posts if its gonna work. If it doesn't, then just return it and your only out the point.

11 Amp, 120 Volt Breaker Hammer

 

[zonta223]

Have you considered a demolition hammer using either electric using a generator, or a hyd demolition hammer.

Thats what I used to drive the steel posts in my vineyard. Set the generator up on the back of a Suziki pickup. Drop the jack hammer over the end of the post and just press the trigger. You don't have to put downwards pressure on. The weight of the jack hammer is enough to drive it in. If you have 2 or 3 people doing the job (1 driving, 1standing the poles up, 1 on the back of the pick up) you can drive 100's of poles a day easily.

 

[cletus99]

Is this something like what you're looking for? It's not the one I was looking for, but pretty much the same. I can't find the link of one I looked at before.


Striker™ TS Air Operated Post Driver - Tractor Supply Online Store

 

[Haoleguy]

Is this something like what you're looking for? It's not the one I was looking for, but pretty much the same. I can't find the link of one I looked at before.


Striker™ TS Air Operated Post Driver - Tractor Supply Online Store

I had seen that one many years ago and looked again but besides needing a compressor to haul around it is too narrow of a diameter for my posts. Anything that can drive oil pipe is pretty much fair game.....Gary

 

[Haoleguy]

I'm intrigued by the electric demo hammer idea as I have a welder who could modify it for me. However it brings up the question of how many foot pounds of impact energy is required. Many of these smaller(12-25lb) hammers delivery 4-18 ft lbs whereas the AC-LPD hydraulic driver provides 81 ft lbs. That brings up the question how much is needed for a post to be driven 2 ft into gravely/stony soil efficiently? Is there a way to calculate for this?...Gary

 

[zonta223]

I'm intrigued by the electric demo hammer idea as I have a welder who could modify it for me. However it brings up the question of how many foot pounds of impact energy is required. Many of these smaller(12-25lb) hammers delivery 4-18 ft lbs whereas the AC-LPD hydraulic driver provides 81 ft lbs. That brings up the question how much is needed for a post to be driven 2 ft into gravely/stony soil efficiently? Is there a way to calculate for this?...Gary

I understand what you are saying but the Jackhammer cycles at a far higher rate than the air or hydraulic hammers. My ground is shallow clay over limestone and slate. Don't have any problems driving the posts in.....got lots of problems trying to pull them out :laughing: Many new tractor mounted and large pile drivers mounted on barges use the theory of many smaller hits work better that a few big ones.......Also if you hit something that the post won't go through better to hit the pole with lots of small hits and keep it straight rather than a few big hits and bend the poles. I have my own tractor mounted post knocker which I use to put in 8" end poles but use the jackhammer to put the steel ones in..its so much quicker.