At Home In The Woods

[2manyrocks]

It's important for these drains to be air and water tight. Just think of the smell you get just from having water evaporate from an unused water trap that allows septic gas to leak into the house.

 

[CurlyDave]

What's the point of pressure testing a drain line? Drain lines don't carry or hold pressure. I understand filling with water & checking for joint leaks before covering with crete. Pressure just seems like overkill.......

RD

The reason for conducting an air pressure test is that it is often easier to determine that a leak exists with air pressure than with water. Small leaks sometimes don't drip water because of capillary action (water surface tension).

While the initial reaction to this might be "if they don't drip why worry about them?" The problem is that once soap is introduced into the drain system it counteracts the water surface tension and the leaks drip.

Domestic drain lines always have soap in them from bathing, hand washing, and dish washing. None of these activities happen during construction.

Eddie is absolutely right about the tree roots. They do exactly what he says.

 

[Diamondpilot]

On a side note, I wanted to express to Obed that my critisism is meant to be helpful ,and hopefully I can offer ideas, or points of view, that you might not have considered.

I've read everyones replies, and it sort of seems like they might be ganging up on you, but it's just everyone being concerned and sharing what we're thinking. We're not there, we don't know your conditions or even your plan. While I can only speak for myself, I think the others would agree that it's very stressful to build a house, and having to hear a bunch of critisism during the process doesn't help with that stress level, but it's all intended to be helpful during this process.

I know that when I post a thread on a big project, I always appreciate what everyone has to say, and find allot of the comments to be very helpful. We never know enough, and if you get just one suggestion that solves a problem that you never thought of, then it's all worth it.

Eddie

Well said Eddie. We only want a good end product for him. He has waited this long and lived in a camper making sacrifices this whole time. He, his wife, and his new child only deserve the best.

Chris

 

[dave1949]

On a side note, I wanted to express to Obed that my critisism is meant to be helpful ,and hopefully I can offer ideas, or points of view, that you might not have considered.

I've read everyones replies, and it sort of seems like they might be ganging up on you, but it's just everyone being concerned and sharing what we're thinking. We're not there, we don't know your conditions or even your plan. While I can only speak for myself, I think the others would agree that it's very stressful to build a house, and having to hear a bunch of critisism during the process doesn't help with that stress level, but it's all intended to be helpful during this process.

I know that when I post a thread on a big project, I always appreciate what everyone has to say, and find allot of the comments to be very helpful. We never know enough, and if you get just one suggestion that solves a problem that you never thought of, then it's all worth it.

Eddie

Thanks for saying this Eddie.
Dave.

 

[Pops15]

Thanks for saying this Eddie.
Dave.

Ditto.

 

[Cat_Driver]

I have to agree with someone earlier who suggested some sort of construction manager . GC / Adviser etc.

I understand none of us are there but taking care of problem by running to the internet to solve those problems is not efficient for everyone concerned, owner or plumber.

With as many great people who are out of work one would think there would be a guy to hire with experience ad a job foreman of over seer.

It's the little things that cab turn into huge problems down the road. The couple of things I've read here with the back fill, compaction and drain leak or not leak are things hat could be either foreseen or settled issues before they got to the point of frustration.

There are going to be hundreds if not thousands of these kinds of things pop up and none can slip by.

Sub contractors have many, many more ways to skim money from you than you can even think of because they have been doing what they do for years and know the tricks of the trade, a good guy will protect your investment.

One thing I may not have read. Did anyone test the concrete for strength when it hit the job site? How about adding fibers to the concrete, out here it was inexpensive .......

Harde steel fibers mixed will increase flexural and bending strength by 1.5 to 3 times that of standard reinforced concrete. Steel fibers reinforce in three dimensions throughout the entire matrix. They restrain micro-cracking by acting as tiny reinforcing bars. The earlier a crack is intercepted and its growth inhibited the less chance it will develop into a visual crack or problem.

Engineering News at NC State

Personally Since I learned about fibers in concrete I have never poured a wheelbarrow full of concrete without fibers.

This is just one example a good manager would talk to you about.

 

[EddieWalker]

With as many great people who are out of work one would think there would be a guy to hire with experience ad a job foreman of over seer.

I've seen comments like this fairly often, and wanted to comment on it. While I can't speak for the rest of the country, I do have some knowledge of what's going on in my area. Here, things have slown down, but there is still work going on. More remodeling then new construction. Of the new construction, it's more custom homes then anything else. The spec home market is just about dead, but there are those who are still doing a few of them. Rental homes, duplexes and apartment buildings are also in demand, as it's getting harder to borrow money, more people are renting.

Saying that, I have found that those who are working, are the ones with the better reputation with the better skills then those who are not working. While it's not 100%, the slowdown has had a cleansing effect that is getting rid of those who do shoddy work and have burned their bridges. The bigger companies are busy and looking for workers, but have become very selective in hiring the better workers. There are allot of guys looking for work, but nobody wants to hire them because they have a history of problems, and/or cannot produce any sort of history of what they have done. I've been looking for help for half a year now. It's not something that I have to have, but I have enough work lined up that a quality helper would speed things up and allow me to take on more projects. Since my reputation and quality of service is what keeps me busy, I've been hesitant on hiring anybody. Of the guys I've talked to, none are what I'd want to represent me to my clients.

If you hire somebody, and they are not currently working, I'd be concerned why they are not working. While you sometimes get lucky, the odds are very strong that the reason he's not working is that nobody else wants to hire him. The odds are also very strong that there's a reason for this. Having worked with all sorts of people in the trades, those reputations are usually well deserved. When they are hungry, they can be very convincing, but once the job gets going and they've made a buck or two, the reason for those issues becomes pretty evident.

Eddie

 

[2manyrocks]

There is a certain level of efficiency in presenting issues on TBN because the OP has already received many good suggestions from people who have been there and done it already.

As has already been said, now is the time to make sure these foundation and drains are correct. Once they are covered with cement and a house is sitting on top of them, not so easy to fix.

I just had some block laid to enclose a garage, and I felt lucky to get my blocklayer because he is so busy. The reason he is busy is because he is dependable and does good work at a good price. I had one smart aleck who wouldn't even price the job just because he didn't want to take the time to cut out the block to make overlapping mortar joints.

I thought about the OP's decision to lay a footer under his garage doors because at least I had a footer under my garage door opening and that made it possible for me to go ahead and lay block to close mine up. The OP was wise to go ahead and do a footer in that area, but it also made me wonder what was going on with his job that the contractors didn't put a footer there to start with. So the OP and his wife then had to do the work themselves that should have been done in the first place.

I personally appreciate Eddie's posts in particular because he gives us a contractor's view of the situation. You aren't going to hear some of the things he is saying come out of the mouth of very many contractors in person because they'd just as soon you didn't know.

 

[charlz]

I am wondering with the water test... could the weight of the water in the pipes have caused some settling in the pipes and air _did_ shift around later e.g. overnight? Just a thought.

 

[Pops15]

I've seen comments like this fairly often, and wanted to comment on it. While I can't speak for the rest of the country, I do have some knowledge of what's going on in my area. Here, things have slown down, but there is still work going on. More remodeling then new construction. Of the new construction, it's more custom homes then anything else. The spec home market is just about dead, but there are those who are still doing a few of them. Rental homes, duplexes and apartment buildings are also in demand, as it's getting harder to borrow money, more people are renting.

Saying that, I have found that those who are working, are the ones with the better reputation with the better skills then those who are not working. While it's not 100%, the slowdown has had a cleansing effect that is getting rid of those who do shoddy work and have burned their bridges. The bigger companies are busy and looking for workers, but have become very selective in hiring the better workers. There are allot of guys looking for work, but nobody wants to hire them because they have a history of problems, and/or cannot produce any sort of history of what they have done. I've been looking for help for half a year now. It's not something that I have to have, but I have enough work lined up that a quality helper would speed things up and allow me to take on more projects. Since my reputation and quality of service is what keeps me busy, I've been hesitant on hiring anybody. Of the guys I've talked to, none are what I'd want to represent me to my clients.

If you hire somebody, and they are not currently working, I'd be concerned why they are not working. While you sometimes get lucky, the odds are very strong that the reason he's not working is that nobody else wants to hire him. The odds are also very strong that there's a reason for this. Having worked with all sorts of people in the trades, those reputations are usually well deserved. When they are hungry, they can be very convincing, but once the job gets going and they've made a buck or two, the reason for those issues becomes pretty evident.

Eddie

Eddie,
What you describe in your area is what it was like here 2 years ago. Last year things really starting going downhill. This year things are terrible. There were 350-some houses built in one nearby town last year...a down year. This year there was one new house built in that town. Numbers for all towns and counties around here are similar.

A friend on mine's son is a developer. He usually builds 50-60 high end houses a year. In mid to late 2008 he laid everyone off and stopped all work on everything he had going that wasn't sold. He'll resume operations when there's a reason to. Right now there is NO market for new homes around here.

Its not just the housing market. My brother-in-law works for a commercial construction. They have onging contracts with a local hospital which is one of the major employers in the area. Late last year they cut him to 3-4 days a week. He's been off as much this year as he's worked. He's a foreman and has been with the same company 20+ years. Unless something changes drastically he expects to be out of a job by spring.

I'm glad things are still decent where you are. Its a different world up here.

 

[Obed]

Eddie,
Yes, you're right. It can be tough at times reading everyone's comments. Building a house is very stressful, both for me and my pregnant wife. However, I'd rather do something now if I need to than later so I really do appreciate everyone's input. At the end of the day, I just have to consider what everyone has said and go with my best judgement based on TBN comments, questions I ask friends I know in the business, reading the code book, and other research.

Everybody, thanks for your input. All comments are welcome.

Obed

 

[Obed]

We are now living on our property!

Sunday and Monday were two very long and hard days. There were no catastrophies. It was just slow, hard work. I'll post pictures of the camper in it's new location another day.

Don, the trailer mover we hired was incredible. He got the storage trailer in a location I didn't think he would be able get it to. But he got it in a great spot based on our options. Saturday, the day before we moved, we got 2 inches of snow that saturated the ground so putting the 2 trailers in positions was tough. We didn't have gravel where the trailers are going.

Once we got both trailers in place, we had a muddy mess everywhere, right to the camper door. We had to take off our shoes before entering the camper each time. Monday, I took the day off, scraped off the topsoil in front of the camper door, added some red clay, and then added gravel. I also made some gravel walk paths so we can get to things without slopping through mud. It's so nice not dealing with the mud.

We had back-to-back 14 hour days out in the cold. Today I went back to work so I could get some rest.

Obed

 

[dcyrilc]

We are now living on our property!

Obed

Glad to hear that you have made it to living on the property. I'll bet it feels good.

Once we got both trailers in place, we had a muddy mess everywhere, right to the camper door. We had to take off our shoes before entering the camper each time. Monday, I took the day off, scraped off the topsoil in front of the camper door, added some red clay, and then added gravel. I also made some gravel walk paths so we can get to things without slopping through mud. It's so nice not dealing with the mud.

Obed

I understand mud. In October and November, we doubled our normal rainfall. With the cattle, the area around the barn was about 8" deep in soupy mud. It's been freezing or below for the last several days with the sun out and is nice now that the mud has frozen. Especially since I had 7 tons of hay delivered this morning that had to go into the barn. We'll warm up and be back to mud within the week, but it was sure nice being able to back the trailer into the barn instead of having to pack the hay through mud. Next spring/summer, the soft ground around the barn will get removed and good material put in about 18" thick to bring it up to grade, but this will be a muddy winter until then.

 

[ruralruss]

Eddie,
What you describe in your area is what it was like here 2 years ago. Last year things really starting going downhill. This year things are terrible. There were 350-some houses built in one nearby town last year...a down year. This year there was one new house built in that town. Numbers for all towns and counties around here are similar.

A friend on mine's son is a developer. He usually builds 50-60 high end houses a year. In mid to late 2008 he laid everyone off and stopped all work on everything he had going that wasn't sold. He'll resume operations when there's a reason to. Right now there is NO market for new homes around here.

Its not just the housing market. My brother-in-law works for a commercial construction. They have onging contracts with a local hospital which is one of the major employers in the area. Late last year they cut him to 3-4 days a week. He's been off as much this year as he's worked. He's a foreman and has been with the same company 20+ years. Unless something changes drastically he expects to be out of a job by spring.

I'm glad things are still decent where you are. Its a different world up here.

Where is "up here"? Just curious.

Russ

 

[jayste]

We are now living on our property!

Today I went back to work so I could get some rest.

Obed

I can relate to this! I wish I had a nickle for everytime I've said or thought it!

I'm sure the move to the property will take a little stress off. Looking forward to those new pics.

Jay

 

[piller]

We had back-to-back 14 hour days out in the cold. Today I went back to work so I could get some rest.

I can also relate to this.

I'm enjoying reading about your project. We are practically neighbors, I live in Oakdale, near the Emory river, a little ways downstream from the Obed. I work in Oak Ridge.

Where are you getting your gravel? Just wondering, I will soon need some for my driveway.

 

[Pops15]

Obed,
Glad to see you got moved.
The worst is just about behind you. There shouldn't be too many surprises from here on out.

Russ,
60 miles south of Chicago. I do mostly residential remodeling so I haven't been affected as much as the builders. I think by May or June things will begin to improve.
Pops

 

[Obed]

This past Saturday, I went to the property and wired up on our temp electric pole a 30A jack for our camper. We have a long extension cord that I made a few years ago using outdoor grey wire from Lowes. I just added a jack and and a plug to the wire. The wire is probably 100 feet in length. My homemade extension cord cost a fraction of what one at a camper store would cost. My wife found a plastic water hose reel that had been thrown away that we use for rolling up the extension cord.

Saturday morning we got 2 inches of snow which melted in the afternoon. I wish I had take pictures of the snow in the woods here. It was probably pretty but I was too distracted concerning the work I had to get done before moving to really notice.

Three weeks ago I had prepared the pad for the camper; the camper pad was in fairly good condition in spite of the wet conditions. However, due to building materials that had previously been in the way, the area for the storage trailer was not it great shape. And now the snow didn't help matters because it saturated the ground. Later in the afternoon on Saturday, I thought the ground had dried out enough for me to use my tractor to at least get rid of the ruts that the concrete trucks had made. Well, as I started using my tractor tires to even out the ruts in the soft dirt, I ended up making my own ruts. I was able to do some good but there was a low spot that was just unfixable in the conditions. The truck and storage trailer would have go through this low spot in order to put the storage trailer in its final destination.

Saturday I left the property resigned to the disappointment that I would have to ask the trailer mover to park the storage trailer in front of the future garage. I would have to move the storage trailer myself with my truck at a later date when conditions were better. I know it sounds pretty easy to just hitch up the trailer to the truck and back it in place. However, the trailer is completely full and very heavy. Moving it is a real effort. The trailer is so heavy that I can't lift it by cranking the jack handle. I have to put blocks under the tongue and use a small hydraulic jack to jack it up. I can only jack it up with this jack about 6 inches at a time. Then I have to add more blocks or wood and jack some more. This process takes forever. Also, once the camper got parked, the maneuvering room for moving the storage trailer would even be more constrained.

 

[eazyduzzit]

Hi Obed! I got interested in your story before I realized we are neighbors (sort of). I live in Halls and I did what your are now doing about 10 years ago. I was divorced and couldn't afford a contractor, so I built my own house. I subbed out some parts and did a lot of the labor myself. I really enjoyed it, and wouldn't take anything for the experience. No contractor will look after you interests like you will.

It looks like you and the missus are building a great life for yourselves. Good luck with everything, maybe I can come out and see it one day.
Jim

 

[Obed]

Sunday morning, the wife and I got as much ready for the move as possible. Don arrived with his Chevy dually at around 11:30 AM. Don is wearing an orange coat in the pictures. I had blocks and my hydraulic jack all set up for jacking up the storage trailer tongue. We hitched up the storage trailer to Don's truck and caravaned to the property with two of our cars. When we reached the bottom of our steep street that runs straight up to the top of the ridge, we had Don park his truck and our trailer. I drove him to our property so he could decide how he would maneuver the trailer. I recommended that Don might want to back the trailer down our 900 foot long driveway because of tight maneuvering conditions. However, Don wanted to pull forward down the driveway and turn around at the house site.

We went back to the bottom of the street where Don had parked. Don drove the trailer right up the steep grade without any problems. I was concerned that the low trailer might drag down our driveway. However, dragging was not an issue. I'm pretty proud of our driveway. It has handled the large vehicles fairly well.

When Don reached the house site, he started maneuvering the trailer in position to back it up into its final destination, not the temporary spot in front of the garage. I really wanted the trailer in its final spot and was happy to let Don try it. As he was maneuvering, a pile of gravel was in the way so I moved it with my tractor.

Once the gravel pile was out of the way, got the trailer lined up and backed it toward its home. Unfortunately the back of the low riding trailer hit a hump in the parking pad it could not get over. I got on the tractor and started back-dragging with the front end loader but didn't make much progress because the hump was to well settle and hard. This hump was just to the right of the low muddy point we were trying to avoid. Don asked if he could use the tractor and I let him. He started digging with the FEL. I was grimmacing because I was watching my hard packed dirt get removed and deposited as soft dirt on the camper pad. And with conditions left over from the previous day's snow, I knew what would happen to all this (now) soft dirt - MUD! Don saw me grimmacing and got off the tractor and said he saw I was displeased and didn't want to make me unhappy. I tried to smile and told Don to keep going so he did.

After removing the hump, Don backed up the trailer. As he maneuvered back and forward, his truck kept sliding little by little closed to the low muddy area. With heroic efforts, Don eventually backed the trailer into place. What a relief! I was dreading having to move the trailer myself later.