At Home In The Woods

[Obed]

I dug some more this evening next to the house where the electrical will enter the house.

We will have two 200 A electrical runs entering here 4 feet apart. There are two holes behind the Bituthene 4 feet below the house sheathing. I didn't make things easy on myself by digging the trench a few weeks ago before digging next to the house. The trench made it very difficult for me to maneuver the tractor beside the house and also made it hard for the backhoe to reach the dirt pile.

I was able, with difficulty, able to position the tractor so I could reach most of the digging area. I seemed like I spent more time positioning the tractor than the time I spent digging. There was some hand digging required. It got dark when I was 95% finished. I have a little more hand digging I need to do up next to the concrete.

 

[Obed]

Cabinet Update

Thanks everybody for the responses to my cabinet questions. Nobody seemed to be thrilled about the metal drawers and neither was I but your comments helped us to decide.

We spoke to the most expensive cabinet maker this afternoon about some options we wanted that were not in his estimate. We told him we wanted dovetailed wood drawers, not the metal ones. He sent us a revised estimate that is $500 higher than his previous estimate. He said he likes to structure the payment schedule at 50/40/10 instead of 50/50 because sometimes there are long construction delays caused by other subs that delay him from being able to finish the job. He agreed to accept 50% down, 50% on completion payment schedule instead of the 50/40/10 plan if he gets the job.

He is $3500 higher than the next highest bid. I asked wife if she likes him $3500 more than her second choice cabinet maker. She is going to sleep on it.

 

[Obed]

Gutter Guards

We don't know much at all about what are the best type of gutter guards for preventing leaves and other junk from clogging the gutters. With all the trees around our house, we will need really good gutter guards.
A gutter guy came by today.

Here are pictures of two gutter guards he can install. Here are close-ups (gutter guard 1 and gutter guard 2).

Can you tell me which guard would be better? Or do you have some other gutter guard suggestions?

Thanks,
Obed

 

[dcyrilc]

Gutter Guards

We don't know much at all about what are the best type of gutter guards for preventing leaves and other junk from clogging the gutters. With all the trees around our house, we will need really good gutter guards.
A gutter guy came by today.

Here are pictures of two gutter guards he can install.

Can you tell me which guard would be better? Or do you have some other gutter guard suggestions?

Thanks,
Obed

The longer sample looks to be stainless steel which should last longer, but cost more. Not sure that using stainless would be much of a benefit for gutter guards.

Around here they sell a product called "leafguard" which incorporates the gutter gard into the gutter itself. They also claim that if they ever clog, they will send someone out to clean them for free. Gutters From LeafGuard - Seamless Gutter System

 

[EddieWalker]

Go with the gutter guard with the biggest holes. While both look to be pretty good, I've had some serious issues with those using smaller holes, and not as many. When the water comes down too fast to go through the gutter guards, it goes over and ends up inside of the soffits. I've had several clients with water damage inside of their sheetrock because of this.

Eddie

 

[CurlyDave]

The best gutter guard is a chainsaw.

At our home in CA we have overhanging oak trees and no type of gutter guard has ever worked to keep the gutters flowing freely. I have taken them out and just go up on the roof with a leaf blower 3-4 times every winter.

In OR, we have trees but they are mostly 50-75' from the house and so far no problems with leaves with no gutter guards.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Having trees next to a house is heaven and ****. Your maintenance goes way up on the house.

IMO, gutter guards only work marginally. Now, our slope is pretty shallow on the Washington house, but the guards we have purchased seem to need as much maintenance as going without guards.

Once a dry leaf gets wet, it turns into rubbery paper that will not blow off the roof, generally bllocks then builds up at the roof / gutter/ gutter guard line, and creates more havoc than it resolves.

You just had a great gutter cleaner added to your family. I would put that money for gutter guards into your gutter cleaners college fund, but that is just me.

 

[srs]

Gutter Guards

We don't know much at all about what are the best type of gutter guards for preventing leaves and other junk from clogging the gutters. With all the trees around our house, we will need really good gutter guards.
A gutter guy came by today.

Thanks,
Obed

Another suggestion. When you get gutters installed go with the larger or "commercial" size gutters and downspouts. I had them installed on my house and never had an issue. They handle a larger volume of water much easier.

Also if you plan to put underground drain lines in for the downspouts do not use the black plastic flexible tubing. With them small sticks and debris can get caught inside them and they dam up. Go with smooth white PVC type pipe, either schedule 20 or schedule 40, very little chance of stuff getting hung up inside them.

 

[tommu56]

Obed
Get leaf guard style gutters
LeafGuard's Seamless Gutters & Gutter System Pictures


I put some thing like this on mine at my cabin I had the gutters up all ready.
Gutter Helmet Protects You & Your Home: Getting Started

I had the screen things and nothing but headaches.

As Eddie said in a heavy rain it will over shoot the gutters but if the whole design and sealing is done correctly it shouldn't be a problem with proper dranage on the ground.

Home depot sells some thing similar it thing it was about $1.00 a foot in 4' sections


On a side note any reason you didn't put the utilities in before the foundation? or at least stub them out 2-3 ft from the walls?
My back is hurting from all the hand digging you have had to do!

tom

 

[ruralruss]

Another suggestion. When you get gutters installed go with the larger or "commercial" size gutters and downspouts. I had them installed on my house and never had an issue. They handle a larger volume of water much easier.

Also if you plan to put underground drain lines in for the downspouts do not use the black plastic flexible tubing. With them small sticks and debris can get caught inside them and they dam up. Go with smooth white PVC type pipe, either schedule 20 or schedule 40, very little chance of stuff getting hung up inside them.

I agree on the size. I think ours are are like 4.5 by 2.25 but not sure. Much larger than the smaller size I was use to. It really help with the toad stranglers we get here in NW GA. On the guards, I have not used them but the gutter guards look good to me. We use something like the smaller one you show and I don't like their appearance much. Thy also like to catch pine needles which often fall as a two needle pairs and invariably fall into 2 separate holes.

Russ

 

[Pops15]

I suspected the cabinet maker had construction delays in mind when he proposed that pay schedule.

As for leaf guard systems...they all have their faults.
I like Rainflow better than the metal screens. I've used it several times and my customers love it. I installed it on my Mom's house and I'm going to install it on my own house. It's far superior in keeping maple seeds out than metal screens.

Rain Flow - Total Gutter Production

 

[Pops15]

Another suggestion. When you get gutters installed go with the larger or "commercial" size gutters and downspouts. I had them installed on my house and never had an issue. They handle a larger volume of water much easier.

Also if you plan to put underground drain lines in for the downspouts do not use the black plastic flexible tubing. With them small sticks and debris can get caught inside them and they dam up. Go with smooth white PVC type pipe, either schedule 20 or schedule 40, very little chance of stuff getting hung up inside them.

6" as opposed to standard 5" gutters are becoming more popular for residential installations around here.

 

[eepete]

We did the 6" gutters, and have no trees too close to the house, and the only trees semi close are on the east side (winds tend to be from south to west around here). 4" galvanized downspouts. Smooth 4" PVC drains. So no gutter cleaning problems.

Last house was deep "In The Woods", had "standard" extruded plastic covered aluminum gutters. The 3x4 rectangular down spouts were on them, drains were 4" corrugated plastic. Have had to clean drain lines twice by futzing about with a garden hose. Tried various gutter guards like the ones you posted. Still had to clean the gutters each year, but at least it was on my schedule. So if go this route, pay attention to how hard it is to remove the guards. That house had them attached with aluminum sheet metal screw, so it's a pain. We had gum, pine, oaks and hickory trees, so lots of different sizes of debris.

Extruded 4" rectangular gutter is cheapest, 6" half round metal gutter most expensive. So you are back in familiar territory here reference time, money, and perfection. Young pups trade their lack of money for time and energy, old dogs hopefully can throw extra money at it and save the time and energy (and sometimes they just can't do something anymore).

The old house had the plastic coated aluminum facia on the ends of the roof rafters, no horizontal board. So we could not go back and easily change out the cheaper 4" extruded gutters for the 6" ones. The brackets that hold the big gutters are more extensive and can't go into the end of a rafter. If I were doing it all over, I'd make sure there was a horizontal board at the end of the rafters which the facia was attached to, go with the cheap gutters, and plan to change them out sometime in the future and save for it. This would probably be done in 20-25 years when the house needed a new roof.
I would put in the smooth PVC (3" or 4", depending on how much area the root has) now because you won't want to tear up all your lawn and landscaping down the road. Be sure you have 1/4" drop per foot of run so they self-clean.

Hope this makes sense.

Pete

 

[Obed]

Today I worked on putting a drain tile below the spot where the electrical runs will go through the basement wall. You can see the two holes in the basement wall here.

I dug down about a foot below the holes in the wall. Seven feet below this point at the footers there is another drain tile for the basement. I just want to make sure that water won't seep through the holes in the basement so that's why I'm installing another drain tile. The holes are covered by the Bituthene so you cannot see them. I put down some landscaping fabric and added some gravel. My internet search revealed that there are many different methods of installing drain tile. I chose to use this method.

I got this far when the rain stopped me. I capped off the pipe on both ends. On one end I primed and glued the cap. Yes, I use primer on drain pipes because I'm not a professional plumber. On the other end I put on a temporary cap. After the electrical lines are installed, I will fill in the trench so I can get to this area better with my tractor and will extend the drain tile.

 

[Obed]

On a side note any reason you didn't put the utilities in before the foundation? or at least stub them out 2-3 ft from the walls?
My back is hurting from all the hand digging you have had to do!

tom

Tom,
My back is hurting too! I can thank the no longer hired construction manager for all this work I'm having to do. He didn't think ahead and backfilled everywhere. Now I get to "un-backfill". Trust me, I think about your question a lot when I'm out there digging. There are a number of things that just took him a few minutes to do that will take me weeks to undo. I hope there's something I'm supposed to learn from all this that will make me a better person.

Obed

 

[Diamondpilot]

Having trees next to a house is heaven and ****. Your maintenance goes way up on the house.

IMO, gutter guards only work marginally. Now, our slope is pretty shallow on the Washington house, but the guards we have purchased seem to need as much maintenance as going without guards.

Once a dry leaf gets wet, it turns into rubbery paper that will not blow off the roof, generally bllocks then builds up at the roof / gutter/ gutter guard line, and creates more havoc than it resolves.

You just had a great gutter cleaner added to your family. I would put that money for gutter guards into your gutter cleaners college fund, but that is just me.

I could not agree more. I got that job from about 13 on at my folks place. They tried every type of guard built and none worked well. I still had to get up there and clean it out.

At my place now I just wait till its dry and blow them out with the leaf blower before I mow. I have to do this about 3-4 times a year but is a 30 minute job for both my home and pole barn.

Chris

 

[Obed]

I'm starting to think that I might want to avoid using gutter guards. I'm pretty sure I don't want to have to unscrew them in order to clean the gutters. Our roof pitch is 8/12. I have walked on our roof and it feels pretty steep to me. The back side of the house is too tall for me to consider cleaning the gutters while standing on a ladder.

I'm not as brave (or as young) as the guys in this picture. So I'm thinking that when I clean the back gutters, I'll tie myself with a rope to the chimney and lie on my stomach on the roof to clean the gutters. Unscrewing gutter guards sounds painful and dangerous while lying on the roof.

I'm not sure whether or not I like the gutters that have the guards that would cause the water to overflow the gutters during strong rains. The RainFlow product Pops mentions looks interesting.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'm really in debt to you guys for taking the time to help us build our house.

Obed

 

[Obed]

I suspected the cabinet maker had construction delays in mind when he proposed that pay schedule.

As for leaf guard systems...they all have their faults.
I like Rainflow better than the metal screens. I've used it several times and my customers love it. I installed it on my Mom's house and I'm going to install it on my own house. It's far superior in keeping maple seeds out than metal screens.

Rain Flow - Total Gutter Production

Pops,
Have you seen this product in use on houses with lots of trees near the house?

Thanks,
Obed

 

[CurlyDave]

Obed:

8/12 is a very steep roof pitch.

The roof will be slippery from water, wet leaves and possibly ice. Falling off will ruin your whole day.

Tying yourself to the chimney with a rope sounds like a way to re-enact an old-time hanging. At a minimum get a proper harness to wear.

I have seen and used gutter cleaners that are essentially long extensions for a leaf blower with a U-turn at the far end. You stay on the ground lift the end up into the gutter and blow out the leaves.

Needless to say the disadvantage is that you get a full & complete shower of all the stuff in the gutter coming down on you, but a rain slicker and a logger's hard hat will make it a lot easier to take than a fall from the roof.

Better yet, hire it done. In Grants Pass I can get a guy to clean my gutters for $100. I don't know what his technique is, and I have never watched him. But that is chump change for not having to take the chance of falling off the roof.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So, up until we purchased the house in Washington, I have not lived in, nor owned, a house that had gutters...

As I see it, the point is to move water away from the house (keep the foundation relatively dry) and keep any person walking under dry. That said, I have not seen a lot of gutters that didn't leak or have other issues.

There are some serious architects and engineers, why gutters?