Anyone pump water from a pond

[woodlandfarms]

We are in the midst of water issues on our property. Minor, but inconvenient.

We have a pond on the property that appears to hold water year round. It is about 100 feet down and about 300 feet from where we would like it. I have been mulling trenching a pipe down to it and putting a pump on top of the hill and filling up barrels so that the water can be used in a greenhouse.

Just wondering what sort of problems I might not have thought of (too big of a distance or pump not priming).

I think as the responses to this evolve my questions will be come clearer.

 

[Danno1]

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The pump can't be any higher than 33 ft above the water. And at that distance it would be pretty much useless anyway. You need the pump at the bottom and push the water. And it sounds like you'll need a big pump. Due to time constraints I'll let someone else do the calcs.

.

 

[Tig]

I agree that a pump at the bottom of the hill would be less problematic. Is this to be a permanent solution?

 

[schmism]

youll need a standard deep well pump to make a 100 feet of head.

which means its submersiable in the pond at the bottom. Id say your looking at $2K

 

[woodlandfarms]

What is happening is that we are going onto "city" water. There is an Arsenic issue in our area and the entire road is chipping in (with state and fed support) on a filtered water system.

One of the rules is that you must abandon your existing well (Shallow at 80 ft but clean of arsenic - but low producing - under 2 GPM) or have your well inspected every year at the tune of $50 a year.

I really don't dig people inspecting my property, and we have already taken on a lot of responsability on this project. Also, I am not sure when we will have the greenhouses up so the well may be sitting for a couple of years (thus might fill up with junk).

But the greenhouses are a fair distance away from the main house.

I was thinking of taking the existing pump out of the current well and using it in the pond. Any thoughts? I don't know much about well pumps so...

 

[WarrenF]

Here is a site that gives all sorts of info about pumps and how to hook them up......don't know if this is against the rules here.....but they also would like to sell you something. The information however is very very helpful.....

YOU CAN INSTALL YOUR OWN WATER WELL SUBMERSIBLE PUMP SYSTEM

 

[Shmudda]

You have to remember that its always better to have a flooded suction inlet on a pump then try to create the pressure drop to pull the fluid into the pump. For the latter, it all depends on the "net positive suction head" of the pump and they are all different depending on the make, model, size and configuration of the pump itself.

I pump water from a pond to water flowers, lawn, garden, and even wash machinery, its very convenient and my well doesn't get stressed! I do it with a small 2-stroke Shindiawa centrifugal pump. You have to remember that for every foot of elevation you need .433 PSI of pressure or head just to get the liquid up to that level, this doesn't include the frictional losses due to the hose or piping, which adds additional pressure requirements depending on the length of the run and the number of elbows or connections.

I personally would not drop a deep well pump into the pond as you will no way be able to keep it vertical and off the muddy bottom. They are not built for that. You are better off to get a 4 cycle I/C engine trash type pump from Northern Tools that can handle the job and fill your barrels when you need them filled. Again, look at the specs of the pump and select the correct one for the job. Remember too, they all rate the pumps in GPM (Gallon Per Minute) and this rating is at zero head, that means it is sitting right next to the pit or pond you are pumping and it's spewing the water directly out from the discharge connection. It can be misleading, so be careful.

Good luck...........

Craig

 

[MarkV]

How about rigging a system that would let you take the barrels to the pond with the tractor for filling? You could then use an inexpensive trash pump to fill the barrels.

It is going to take a lot of pump, pipe, power and $$$ to bring water the height and distance you need to. You could pay the $50 inspection for many a year and still be ahead.

MarkV

 

[6sunset6]

How about going on town water for the house and using the existing well and pump for the greenhouses. Might just need a bigger storage tank.

 

[ToadHill]

My system requires some work but isn't that complicated. 2-50 gal barrels in the bucket and a small gas powered pump. Pump water from the pond into the barrels, move the barrels to the garden and drain them into the permanent water tank which is plumbed into the irrigation system. It takes about 1/2 hour to complete a 100 gal switch.

 

[chh]

I ran submersible pumps in ponds for 12 years to a commercial hog operation, it is not hard to rig up. We ran direct burial wire to the ponds when we ran the 2" pipe. The pump has to be in a casing and suspended off of the bottom. The casing promotes water flow over the motor of the pump to cool it(according to the pump guys sitting in water isn't enough if the water isn't moving). 6" pvc pipe with a well cap on it works great. It needs to be about 6 to 8" longer that the pump assembly. I have used 5 gal buckets to float them but a cable across the pond secured around a posts worked better for me. We used that system for the 12 years we were in business on 2 ponds and only replaced 1 pump. We had about 500' of run, but our lift was only about 12'. We used commercial 1 1/2 hp 40 gpm pumps for our setup, but I wouldn't think you would need to run something that big.

 

[studor]

I use a three inch semi trash pump in the summer to water the lawn from my pond. It powers four sprinklers that are each about 100 feet from the pump. I use a homemade "manifold" at the pump to split the three inch into 3/4 hose lines. Running one spinkler at 300 ft or more is easy. Remember you are dealing with both volume and pressure so it all depends on how much water you need and how fast you need it. If I need to move water further I have two old oil fuel tanks that I pump into and "relay" the water between them (NO TRACTOR REQUIRED). It took me a long time to be convinced I needed a gas pump just because I have a pond but after discovering all the uses (like putting out grass fires, lawn and gardening water, flood avoidance etc) I would not be without one now.
From the sounds of your setup I would try to use the well for watering the greenhouses as someone suggested but would buy a gas pump for all the other things I have discovered they are useful for. Then you can experiment as well!
If you end up keeping the well, and not using it for a period of time, just pump it for a long time every couple of months to clear any sediment and keep the feeding water veins open and it should be fine.

 

[firemanpat2910]

Out at my buddies place we run an electric powered trash pump from the creek, to the pond. 250' away. pump&motor are up on bank, hard suction with strainer into creek, 1.5" flex hose to pond. works great

 

[bucmeister]

One of his points was that he would be required to abandon his existing well or pay a yearly fee to keep it open. Frankly, this sounds like the preferable option compared to the probable expense of setting up a run from the pond. One question that comes to mind is how deep is the pond? Is it deep enough to allow the pump to sit upright in the casing and still be covered by the required depth of water? The fact the pump is already owned will impact the cost estimates as would the pressure tank from the old well system.

 

[Blackbird_BX]

It might be possible to reuse the existing well pump if the pond is deep enough. The could cut down on the expense.

 

[keeney]

If you just want to use the pump to fill some barrels, there is no need of the pressure tank. Just run the power cable from the greenhouse end so you can switch the pump on when you want water to flow and off when you are done. Just don't dead-head the pump. In other words, don't put a valve or nozzle that can be closed on the end - just leave the end of the pipe or hose open at the end.


I agree that using the pump you already own is a good choice if you rig it as if it was in a well casing and keep it from sucking too much mud. Some 1" irrigation poly would probably be the cheapest thing to pipe the water the 300 feet. The power cabling is probably going to be the most expensive part of the project. 300' of 8 or 6-gauge copper is going to be some bucks.

If your well has arsenic, I would think the pond would be suspect as well - I wouldn't drink out of it!

- Rick

 

[JayDavis]

I am thinking similar to the casing idea. If you could get 6" PVC Screened Casing pipe you could find a way to secure it to the bottom of the pond and keep it upright, you could cap the bottom, let the water enter through the screen and set the pump about 1-2ft from the bottom (for a sump) suspended via steel cable and pipe the water up and out.

....or you could collect rain water from your gutters into a storage tank for water in a green house... and you'd avoid the arsenic problem as well.

 

[turnkey4099]

At 100 ft lift (assuming that is the total), any small shallow well pump placed at the pond will do your job. The cost would be under $200 for the pump and tank if required. Another option is a plain centrifigal pump that will produce 100 ft plus head. I irrigate for years with a centrifigal, no pressure tank set up through the sprinklers. The pump output was right 40psi at the sprinkler heads.

Calculation is .433 per ft elevation rise and add some for pipe/fitting loss. A straight run of 1" pipe won't lose you that much.

The pump doesn't even have to be at the pond but must be no more than about 26ft above the water surface. Someone posted 33 ft. Yes, 33 ft is the 'theoretical' but the 26' is the working figure accounting for pump/pipe/friction loss and even then it is only valid at sea level. The 'head' to figure is from the pump up. Thus placing the pump say 20ft above the pond results in only 80ft to push.

Reality is that the closer the pump to the pond, the easier it will be to prime it and maintain that prime. Of course using a submersible, you don't need to worry about the prime.

My guess on cost, no matter what system you wind up with needn't run you a lot of bucks for the pump. I would expect the cost of the pipe and wiring will add a bunch though.

Harry K