Anyone live near a windfarm?

[KennyG]

The issue is that those "acres" are for short-term storage, and the waste that's in short-term storage isn't in a form that's safe for very long. Typically it looks like a swimming pool, and the water helps cool the waste. You don't want that water to disappear (earthquake? terrorism?) and you don't want someone to grab some (suicide, yes, but we've seen that before, and this is a great way to get a dirty bomb going).

Long-term you need deep storage, such as Yucca Mountain, deep salt mines, etc... but you also need that storage to be in a form that still shouldn't leak - you can't just chuck it into steel or poly barrels and hope for the best.

My recollection - and I haven't read about this in at least a decade or two - is that vitrification, where the waste is essentially mixed with molten glass and the waste is part of the resultant matrix, is the most likely to avoid leaching; someone would have to chip off a chunk of glass to move the waste around and it would be the safest for adding to the storage facility because there's no worries about bringing in another load and finding you need a sump pump for that sludge that's suddenly on the floor

Spent fuel needs to stay in wet storage for about 5 years. After that it can be moved to dry storage because it has decayed enough that wet storage is not required for heat removal. Because the Federal Government has failed on it's commitment to provide long term centralized storage, most plants have on site dry storage. These storage containers are designed for earthquake, flood, aircraft strikes, etc. with a minimum design life of over 100 years.

 

[gsganzer]

Well, I backed out of the OK property that prompted me to start this thread. From everything I could learn (which was an exhausting effort), the wind farm has been shelved for solar farms instead. It doesn't mean it wouldn't re-surface at some later date, but the political climate around wind farms is starting to sour, making it increasingly doubtful.

The solar farms that they replaced it with are pretty extensive though. The first 3 phases will cover over 1500 acres of the nearby properties. The 4th phase is in the planning stage and I never could learn its boundaries/location. There's a fifth one (different company) that's also ready to break ground, also couldn't find its boundaries.

Long story, short. I'm not willing to take the risk and go through the mental gymnastics every time they announce a modification, expansion or additional infrastructure needs. It would detract from enjoyment of the place and take away from my planned retirement bliss.

 

[jyoutz]

This is the real future of energy production. Some day.

Pacific Fusion chooses Albuquerque for $1 billion nuclear fusion site

Pacific Fusion, a California-based commercial nuclear fusion energy company, will build its $1 billion research and manufacturing campus at Albuquerque’s Mesa del Sol, officials announced Friday.

www.abqjournal.com

 

[dstig1]

Yeah - some day. Hopefully. This is one of those things that has always been 20 years away for the past 70 years. People used to ask me when I was going to start building my house. I told them I was on a rolling 5 yr plan - every year it was 5 years away. And then all the cards came together and I started in 2013. Maybe the same thing will happen with fusion. Some day...

 

[Hay Dude]

Windmills and solar panels don’t last forever. People just ignore the maintenance & replacement costs.

Building windmills off the coast in salt water is a special kind of stupid.
I bet in 5-10 years, the salt air will ruin the damn things after they’ve killed thousands of migratory birds and driven whales to beach themselves and die.

Can’t fix stupid

 

[jkeys]

Hawkins,
Being from farming background I really struggle with the thought that taking fertile farm land out of production for wind mill or solar is a good thing vs counter productive. We only have so much farmable land and when it is gone someone is going to get hungry. I suspect but have no actual data to support the thought on a lot of the fields are on property not owned by actual family farmers but by some investment group looking for quick payout vs what will land be growing 20 years from now. Local farmers just rent the property.

Some of the restrictions imposed were farmers couldn’t drive on access roads to the towers but power company could at will drive on your crops to repair the tower. There was some reimbursement that I am not certain how it worked. This was a real problem for the farms that raised food for their animals.

The huge, huge unknown is what happens when the tower wears out or farm is decommissioned.

The alternative is taking up far more farm land for a large power plant. At least crops can still be grown under the windmill.

 

[jkeys]

Windmills and solar panels don’t last forever. People just ignore the maintenance & replacement costs.

Building windmills off the coast in salt water is a special kind of stupid.
I bet in 5-10 years, the salt air will ruin the damn things after they’ve killed thousands of migratory birds and driven whales to beach themselves and die.

Can’t fix stupid

Nothing lasts forever. There is a massive coal power plant near me that shut down. It is several hundred acres. The whole place is an EPA nightmare. They had sludge ponds that over ran their banks as well as heavy metals detected in the soil everywhere. The ground water is all contaminated. The company is bankrupt and now the public is on the hook for any remediation efforts via state taxes.

 

[D&D]

The alternative is taking up far more farm land for a large power plant. At least crops can still be grown under the windmill.

Yes, you're right. If only the nasty coal sites could be repurposed. They create quite the landscape ornament. (These are 2 different sites; Chalk Point and Morgantown) Oh well, electric available 24/7 has been overrated

 

[lman]

Nothing lasts forever. There is a massive coal power plant near me that shut down. It is several hundred acres. The whole place is an EPA nightmare. They had sludge ponds that over ran their banks as well as heavy metals detected in the soil everywhere. The ground water is all contaminated. The company is bankrupt and now the public is on the hook for any remediation efforts via state taxes.

I don't see your location in your profile. Where is that at?

 

[DarkBlack]

Nothing lasts forever. There is a massive coal power plant near me that shut down. It is several hundred acres. The whole place is an EPA nightmare. They had sludge ponds that over ran their banks as well as heavy metals detected in the soil everywhere. The ground water is all contaminated. The company is bankrupt and now the public is on the hook for any remediation efforts via state taxes.

Which power plant?

 

[DarkBlack]

Oh well, electric available 24/7 has been overrated

… Uh, No it’s not.

 

[jkeys]

Which power plant?

Dickerson Power Plant in MD. It was built in 1959 and its original permits made it exempt from any modern pollution controls for the longest time. When they lost their court case to keep dumping toxins in the river they shut their doors.

Evidence of Groundwater Contamination according to court records:
Boron (x5 over limit), Lithium (x21 over limit), Molybdenum (x30 over limit), Selenium (x6 over limit), Sulfate (x2 over limit)

Volume of coal ash containing heavy metals measured to be present: 3.5 Million cubic yards.

https://mde.maryland.gov/programs/water/water_supply/Source_Water_Assessment_Program/Documents/www.mde.state.md.us/assets/document/watersupply/SWAPS/Montgomery/Dickerson%20Generating%20Station.pdf

Another Judge Sides with Marylanders Against GenOn’s Attempts to Roll Back Clean Water Protections | Environmental Integrity

https://news.maryland.gov/mde/2016/08/29/power-company-to-pay-1-million-penalty-perform-1-million-in-environmental-projects-upgrade-water-pollution-prevention-technology/

NRG Dickerson Plant Found to be Source of Potomac River Sheen | U.S. EPA News Releases | US EPA

19january2017snapshot.epa.gov

 

[Hay Dude]

Dickerson Power Plant in MD. It was built in 1959 and its original permits made it exempt from any modern pollution controls for the longest time. When they lost their court case to keep dumping toxins in the river they shut their doors.

Evidence of Groundwater Contamination according to court records:
Boron (x5 over limit), Lithium (x21 over limit), Molybdenum (x30 over limit), Selenium (x6 over limit), Sulfate (x2 over limit)

Volume of coal ash containing heavy metals measured to be present: 3.5 Million cubic yards.

https://mde.maryland.gov/programs/water/water_supply/Source_Water_Assessment_Program/Documents/www.mde.state.md.us/assets/document/watersupply/SWAPS/Montgomery/Dickerson%20Generating%20Station.pdf

Another Judge Sides with Marylanders Against GenOn’s Attempts to Roll Back Clean Water Protections | Environmental Integrity

https://news.maryland.gov/mde/2016/08/29/power-company-to-pay-1-million-penalty-perform-1-million-in-environmental-projects-upgrade-water-pollution-prevention-technology/

NRG Dickerson Plant Found to be Source of Potomac River Sheen | U.S. EPA News Releases | US EPA

19january2017snapshot.epa.gov

Yeah, no 1959 was a lonnnng time ago.
I’d like to see what a solar or wind farm looks like after 66 years.

You greenies are all the same…find worst example of conventional power plant failure and plant your flag there.

Meanwhile, thousands of power plants chug along, causing minimal disturbance and supplying 24/7/365 dependable power.

 

[jkeys]

Yeah, no 1959 was a lonnnng time ago.
I’d like to see what a solar or wind farm looks like after 66 years.

You greenies are all the same…find worst example of conventional power plant failure and plant your flag there.

Meanwhile, thousands of power plants chug along, causing minimal disturbance and supplying 24/7/365 dependable power.

Funny how you call people who don't want cancer "greenies". I'm all for natural gas plants, modern nuclear, hydro, wind, and solar, etc. I think coal needs to die. Why should my family get cancer for living next to a power plant that benefits mainly city folks living 50 miles away?

Trash incinerators are also a major problem, but I don't think anyone has a great solution for dealing with trash, whether it gets burned for electricity or shoved in the ground.

 

[Jstpssng]

a power plant that benefits mainly city folks living 50 miles away

It isn't just 50 miles. As smokestacks got taller, it just meant that the crap would go even farther. Tbe prevailing winds bloe from west to east so most of our air pollution is imported from 47 states to the west of us.

 

[lman]

It looks like most of our air pollution comes out of Canada wildfires.

 

[dodge man]

All or almost all coal power plants have scrubbers on them. They also burn low sulfur coal or a blend of high and low sulfur coal. I’m not saying the smokestack is clean but much better then it used to be.

 

[jkeys]

It isn't just 50 miles. As smokestacks got taller, it just meant that the crap would go even farther. Tbe prevailing winds bloe from west to east so most of our air pollution is imported from 47 states to the west of us.

In this case the smoke is just part of it. It is the groundwater contamination that is giving people near the plant cancer.

 

[ponytug]

In this case the smoke is just part of it. It is the groundwater contamination that is giving people near the plant cancer.

Depending on the coal origin and combustion method, the ash can have quite high levels of arsenic (0.02-0.1%), which like mercury does leach.

https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2250&context=woca

All the best,

Peter

 

[Hay Dude]

In this case the smoke is just part of it. It is the groundwater contamination that is giving people near the plant cancer.

Depending on the coal origin and combustion method, the ash can have quite high levels of arsenic (0.02-0.1%), which like mercury does leach.

https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2250&context=woca

All the best,

Peter

Since you guys are all about rescuing the great unwashed from cancer from power plants, whats your take on the poor kids working in mines in Africa extracting rare earth metals that cause all kinds of cancers & diseases to build your solar panels, and batteries?