Anyone ever rebuild an old craftsman saw?

[Tenn_Blue]

Well, it finally happened.... My old craftsman gave up yesterday.....

Little 2.3 ci, 14 inch bar red number. I've had it for years- originally found it beside the road in the trash. Cleaned the carb and put new fuel lines in and it ran fine after that.

Was cutting some smaller branches when it locked up and died. Now the motor is frozen. I put some light oil in the cylinder and am letting it sit to see if it will free up, but not optimistic. Premix was good fuel, and it was running ok (before), so not sure exactly why it siezed(?). Will do a post-mordum in a couple days...

It doesn't owe me anything, and the easiest thing would be to go buy a new saw. I have a bigger stihl for heavy work, but the little saw is handy for small tasks. IIR, these older craftsmans were poulons? If I wanted, could I replace the piston and cylinder to get it going again (if everything else is ok) and ballpark what this would cost for parts? Or is the cylinder part of the block? Or am I gonna spend more than it would cost to go get another "cheap" new saw?

Wife says "go buy a new saw" (Gosh, I love her!!!!). Don't want to resurect the whole stihl/husky/(insert name here) battle, but what would anybody recommend? Thinking of getting a mid-power saw that would run a 14-18 inch bar and set it up with the short bar, since I already have a 20 inch saw. The advantage would be having the bigger bar if I needed it - somethingI don't have with my little craftsman. Would want something lighter weight as well. We have a wood stove and plenty of wood to cut to support it, so the saws will be used regularly...

I understand (more important, "THE BOSS" understands..) that a good saw will cost 2x what a cheapy will cost, and thats ok as long as I don't get too extreme...

So guys - gonna spend money anyway (fix or replace), so help me out!!!

 

[LD1]

You will probabally have more money in trying to rebuild it than it is worth. A cheap chinese cylinder and piston combo will still run you $100+ and that is if someone even makes one for that saw. I am betting not. And that is still no garentee the crank/bearings are ok. They are a disposable saw.

You can replace it with another cheap craftsman/poulan/homelite off c-list for under $100.

Or you could go look at some dealers in your area. Stihl/husky/dolmar all make good saws. If you are wanting something similar in size (35-40cc) you should be able to get a name brand one for ~$250. If you are looking for a little bigger, the dolmar 5105 is a good medium sized saw. But anything in the 50cc range is going to set you $400+

 

[Craig Clayton]

The aluminum in the cylinder wall stuck to the piston. ( RIP ).
Craig Clayton

 

[Tenn_Blue]

UPDATE!!!!

After spraying and soaking (and a little prying with a screwdriver), piston is free. Pulls through fine and walls look ok through the exhaust port and plug hole. Seems to have same compression (force required to pull it through) as before the mishap.

BUT

when I roll the chain on the bar by hand quickly, I hear a chattering sound from the area of the clutch. Chain still slides and clutch spins, but I can feel the chatter a little through the chain - bearing going bad? Perhaps that was the reason for the seize?

Does this change my outlook? IF just a bearing/bushing and I can replace it cheaply at the supply store, I may try to fix it for now. Do I have to split the case to evaluate/replace. May be more apparent when I take it apart, just trying to figure out what I am in for and if it's worth it.

OR just get the new saw and fix it when the Wifes not looking :laughing:

 

[jonyyuma]

You can replace the saw at NHyd. for less than $70.00 when they are on special, just how much is your time worth on the old saw? Jy.

 

[studor]

I did a lot of work on an old Craftsman that was my fathers and an old McCullough that was my FIL's. In hind sight I should have made them shop wall ornaments given the time effort and cost to end up with a saw without a chain brake and another that leaks bar oil no matter what you do
Stihl make a little saw that frequently goes on sale for less than two hundred bucks (MS 170 I think) As well a Poulin in that size range can regularly be had for $100 NIB.
Take the bar and chain off that Craftsman and give it to the local educational system for shop class -- JMHO

 

[Tenn_Blue]

Thanks guys for keeping me grounded in reality. :thumbsup:

I have this affliction that just won't let me chuck stuff! I've had any number of projects that were not economically practical, but that I would put aside for "when I had time to mess with it"

Some are worth it for the learning quotient, some for the relaxation, others to just say I could do it! But I don't think this is one of them.

The practical side of me had the saw halfway into the garbage can when it first seized, but the tinkerer in me pulled it back out!

I hadn't thought about the kickback break - from a safety point, it's worth a new saw alone. Now just gotta figure out what to get.....

 

[Nitro-Fish]

Is it a top handle saw? If so, is it the Craftsman top handle witht the "auto sharp" system on it? Many of the older craftsman saws were made by poulan, my guess is if you have one of the older top handles it will be the twin of either the micro XXV, or the S25DA. Unless you leaned it out, these little top handles are almost indestructable. If it is one of the top handles, did you recently replace the chain before it started acting up?

 

[ultrarunner]

I have one of the older Craftsman Top Handle Saws with Power Sharp... really loved that saw and the Barracuda Chain.

It actually belonged to my Mom... one year she said wanted a power saw... it was not cheap if I remember correctly...

I was going to go through it for her and ordered all the parts at Sears... all of the numbers were shown and several weeks later I get a package with a single item... everything else had been discontinued.

Went out and bought her the Echo CS-341 and she likes it just as much and it starts every-time and has the chain brake.

 

[Tenn_Blue]

Nitro - yes it is (was?!?) a top handle, but nothing about autosharp as far as I can see - I assume that means it has some way of keeping the blade chisels sharp as they turn?

Seems a lot of folks don't like the top handle feature (more unsafe than regular handle?) unless you are a professional hanging in a tree trimming (I don't ever plan to be!!!). It never never gave me a problem, but as I said, I didn't run it a lot.

I had not changed the chain - but it was sharpened by the shop not to long ago (in use hours).

Does cold affect operation? I would think that it would be harder to start and run rich? This had been a Florida (think warm and sea level) saw, and expired in cold and higher elevation (we are in the Cumberland plateau). Perhaps that would contribute to a lean condition? But it had seen harder use than this in Florida heat and no problems...

But I think the clutch bearing was loading the motor and caused it to overheat and seize.

 

[Nitro-Fish]

Can you post a picture of the saw?

Yes, most people don't like a top handle saw just because they are not as easy to handle as the conventional (rear & front combo) saws on the market. The top handle saws see most of their use with operators in a bucket (or climbing) and operating the saw with one hand and the balance/stability of the saw is set-up based on this.

I was asking about the chain because of the many variations of chain pitch/gauge combinations available & if the sprocket, bar & chain are not matched properly it will bind the saw.

I will try to check my XXV tomorrow to see if it has a clutch drum bearing that may be causing your seize.

As I mentioned before, these are tough little saws, they have a complete crankcase & P/C setup; very reliable. I would think if you don't have a scored P&C (from leaning it out) you may have a clutch drum (bearing or bushing) problem or perhaps a clutch that is coming apart.

Another thing to check would be if you are running a sprocket nose bar, is it turning freely?

I have also seen these saws that have been run with the spur sprocket (6 tooth btw) in such bad shape (from wear) that the chain will ride out of the groove and onto the high side of the sprocket and kill the saw because the chain gets so tight.

 

[JimRB]

I have one of those. That Craftsman/Poulan I found in a half dozen pieces. Pulled a nut (things that grow on trees) out of the reed valve (I think it is called a reed valve) and put it back together. Worked fine for me except for the sometimes hard to start and the blade that would spin. Hard to get it to start and idle slow. When they run right they run right but mine wasn't one day. I had a fit and got a small Stihl MS210. At least the Stihl does not spin the blade when idling and it it has a chain brake. Months later I played with the Craftsman and go it running again. Stihl starts much quicker.

 

[Tenn_Blue]

As requested, here are some pictures of the "dearly departed".

On the left side (as you would be holding it) it says 2.3/14" then "solid state Craftsman"

Model number and serial number are on the top below the grip, next to the gas cap. Model number 358.353660 Serial #20513062

 

[Nitro-Fish]

Tenn_Blue, the saw you have is the same a the Poulan microXXV; plenty of parts still available for these. Do a search (internet, not necessarily TBN) on the poulan model, you should find plenty of info; you may want to try jacks small enginges, they do have a website, you will also be able to see all of the moving parts when you use their site.

 

[Tenn_Blue]

Thanks Nitro!

Went to sears parts site last night and they had a diagram - still sell some parts (according to the web site...).

Looks like there is a bushing that the clutch cone rides on (not sure if my terminology is correct). Its a poor, low res diagram, cant tell what the bushing rides on - would it be the crankshaft or a seperate jackshaft?

Guessing that wear/play in the bushing/crankshaft or bushing/clutch cone would account for the chatter noise? Or could even be a dragging clutch plate (broken plate/spring/etc). But the chatter happens without the crank/piston moving - makes me think it is in the clutch assembly....

I might set it aside and take it apart sometime and see if I can fix it. I have some bushing stock that I could machine up to fit (having a lathe is so convenient), depending on price/availability of the parts I need.

Is there a special tool I need to take the clutch off?

Still gonna buy a replacement saw for now - don't have time to mess with this one now, but might be fun to tinker with on a slow day.

 

[Jim Thompson]

There is a tool for removing the clutch that makes the job a lot easier, but, I've used a hammer and a brass drift to remove them. Remember that it has left hand threads and turns clockwise to remove. Also, remove the spark plug and use a piece of rope fed into the cylinder as a piston stop.

The sprocket uses a needle bearing to spin on the shaft. The bearing is normally supplied with a new sprocket. Finding parts should not be a problem.

Jim

 

[Travelover]

I went through what you are experiencing last year with my faithful Homelite XL. I replaced the starter pulley for $5, then the chain for $20. Then the roller tip needle bearings failed. Clutch drive teeth were getting worn. I realized that I had paid $99 for it in 1989 and that on a cost per year basis, it didn't owe me a dime.

Long story short, I put the Homelite on Craigslist for $10 clearly stating that it needed a new bar. It sold right away and I bought a Stihl MS 180 for $200. The Stihl has a chain brake and cuts much faster than the old Homelite. I figure it will last me the rest of my life, where as the Homelite was going to need on going repairs and parts were getting scarce.

 

[Tenn_Blue]

Thanks for the info everybody!

I understand that financially, fixing the saw does not make sense. I do plan to get a replacement, - a newer, updated slightly more powerful one with chain brake. I have another thread running regarding that selection and purchase.

As I have said, the saw was free in the first place - only thing I have spent on it is for chains, filter and normal maintenance items.

I am a tinkerer and enjoy fixing things and figuring out how they work. I may tear this one apart in my spare time and see if I can fix it - if it comes to a major money expenditure, no, but if I could fix it for a few bucks, it is worth the "therapy value" to me.

Also, down the line there MAY Be a saw that IS worth rebuilding (if needed) and if I can "practice" on this throw-away, I better understand how to cope with it. Thats how I learned a lot of what I know - started tearing old mowers and stuff apart as a boy and never looked back.

So, yea, i know it may not make sense, but that has never stopped me before!!! :laughing: