Anybody else notice?

[wedge40]

I was following a couple of Marhkam welding threads and they have disappeared. Did they get removed by a moderator and why?

Wedge

 

[schmism]

nope, plenty search results for Markham of TractorByNet.com - Search Results

 

[bbowman]

Wedge,

I was just searching last night, and indeed, a couple of the threads I was following regarding the Marhkam grapple are missing.

I noticed that "That Markham Girl" has 'banned' under her name now.

?

 

[kennyd]

She was banned for advertising without paying, she even posted a letter from Muhammad about it but it only lasted a couple hours or so. It also being talked about on a few other boards.

 

[wedge40]

She was banned for advertising without paying, she even posted a letter from Muhammad about it but it only lasted a couple hours or so. It also being talked about on a few other boards.

I guess there's a fine line between market research and advertising. I found it efficient when she would post shipping status of items.

Oh well, I'll guess we'll have to talk about them behind their back. I haven't been able to use my grapple "YET" but hopefully in a couple of weeks. I'm reclaiming about 3 or 4 acres and could use it right now.

Wedge

 

[rhett]

She was banned for advertising without paying, she even posted a letter from Muhammad about it but it only lasted a couple hours or so. It also being talked about on a few other boards.

yup, i read the thread. thought it was rude and unprofessional of her. there were many things i disliked about her approach, the worst was the listing of customers names on an open forum.

rhett

 

[kernal]

Wedge,
Got any pictures of that grapple yet?

Scott

 

[schmism]

I guess there's a fine line between market research and advertising. I found it efficient when she would post shipping status of items.

Oh well, I'll guess we'll have to talk about them behind their back. I haven't been able to use my grapple "YET" but hopefully in a couple of weeks. I'm reclaiming about 3 or 4 acres and could use it right now.

Wedge

no just means your driving traffic to another site that doesnt have such archaic rules. you might keep the vendor off the boards, but you cant keep the people from tracking down the vendor in other forums.

You have only shot yourself in the foot.

 

[shvl73]

It was very unproffesional of her to post the correspondence. This site is a business after all. Markham has received the benefit of their exposure here. How could she not understand a request to support the site?

 

[Muhammad]

We contacted the manufacturer several times to discuss offering their products for sale in our online store. And their initial response indicated to me an interest in discussing it further. We actually wanted to sell their products direct, since there seemed to be quite a bit of interest.

But after one reply, we never got another follow-up. That lack of response to our e-mails and the actions taken in the forums (as well as complaints from members) led to removing the threads and revoking their forum access.

We don't intend to prevent people from discussing any particular product or brand, and never have done that. But it's simply not fair to the companies that are paying advertisers to allow manufacturers or dealers to openly solicit customers from the forums without paying to advertise.

 

[Sherweld]

We don't intend to prevent people from discussing any particular product or brand, and never have done that. But it's simply not fair to the companies that are paying advertisers to allow manufacturers or dealers to openly solicit customers from the forums without paying to advertise.

I for one would have to agree with Muhammad.

It costs a bunch for this much bandwidth, and the policies on this great forum are quite liberal.

It hardly seems fair to allow one merchant to promote and deal a product for free, in competition with others with similar products, who are paying the bills.

Just my $.02 (and a vote of thanks for having this great forum)

Sherweld

 

[DGS]

I for one would have to agree with Muhammad.

It costs a bunch for this much bandwidth, and the policies on this great forum are quite liberal.

It hardly seems fair to allow one merchant to promote and deal a product for free, in competition with others with similar products, who are paying the bills.

Just my $.02 (and a vote of thanks for having this great forum)

Sherweld

Absolutly!
They make a superior product but you think that it would be peanuts to pay to advertise on this or any tractor site judging by the numbers on it daily
DGS

 

[pennwalk]

vote of thanks for having this great forum

I have to second that! Markham needs to think seriously about supporting TractorBynet.

Chris

 

[johnk]

This sure beats what amount of people the Pennysaver in their area would reach. Sometimes it's hard to understand why people do certain things. TBN probably gave them a substantial part of their business. Oh well......I have a Markham toothbar also!!! Life goes on..Great board and supporters..

 

[john_bud]

Well, it does seem that if you advertise during the superbowl it costs more than when you advertise at 3am on a Tuesday during a local tidily winks tournament. If you want to reach a large target audience, being on a large forum composed of that target audience may be "smart money".

Then again, I don't know the financial situations involved, but in general that is most often true.

I do agree with the banning, by the way. If they don't ban un-authorized advertisers we would be hip deep in Viagra ads, personal part enlarger ads and who the heck knows what else. Some of those other sites have those issues in spades and I don't visit them because of it.

 

[N80]

Yes, I agree. Fees at small websites with small traffic will be small. Fees at a big website with high, focused traffic are going to be higher. That's just business. She might want to compare ad fees at Yahoo or Google.

And the truth is, in my three years of membership here, Markham has gotten excellent exposure and referrals from this site simply by word of mouth.

And clearly, posting personal correspondance, and even worse, customer's names is crossing the line of good taste and reasonable business practice.

I'm not knocking Markham or their products, but this exchange was a loss for them. Business is business and trying to subvert the rules of the host website, whatever those rules happen to be, is just bad business. TBN's ad fees might seem high to her, but they are obviously not too high for the market as there are plenty of other advertisers here.

And, I frankly do not think the rules here are archaic. They are strict sometimes and I don't always like the way things are moderated. But its a private site and its a business. And even though some of the moderating ruffles my feathers, heck, so what? I've been on far too many sites where it is a free-for-all and as soon as traffic increases those sites get real ugly real fast and the signal-to-noise ratio (good info vs garbage) tanks and they are not worth spending time at unless you just like to fuss and get bullied and spammed. Whereas here at TBN I can ask a question (about almost anything) and get the answer I need plus good informed opinions and options to consider almost instantly.

So I think things are just fine.

 

[schmism]

And, I frankly do not think the rules here are archaic. They are strict sometimes and I don't always like the way things are moderated. But its a private site and its a business. And even though some of the moderating ruffles my feathers, heck, so what? I've been on far too many sites where it is a free-for-all and as soon as traffic increases those sites get real ugly real fast and the signal-to-noise ratio (good info vs garbage) tanks and they are not worth spending time at unless you just like to fuss and get bullied and spammed. Whereas here at TBN I can ask a question (about almost anything) and get the answer I need plus good informed opinions and options to consider almost instantly.

you have to consider that this site does not generate anything of its own. this site is only as good as its members. WE are the ones that make this site good. If you strip away the members, all you have is a BBS with no posts, and with no posts you get no traffic and with no traffic you cant sell google adds and with no google adds you dont make any money.

But its a private site and its a business.

this is the fundamental difference that creates the 2 sides to net neutrality. the people that see it as a business like any other brick and morter store want the little people to pay for it. The other side is that the internet was created to share information (you know the original ARPANET that connected major universities for the soul purpose of sharing data) and NO one should have to pay more for the "best" information.

the problem lies in the fact that what was once created to do nothing more than share information has now turned into something whos purpose is to do nothing more than make money for me. It is the ultimate Tom Sawer, have everyone else do all the work for me while i sit back and collect the money.

as such you create "these" type of problems.

 

[Bird]

this site is only as good as its members

I would not argue with that opinion, but I guess I need some clarification. If manufacturers, dealers, etc. are not going to pay to advertise, just who would pay? Or do you really think there's a way to put something like this site on the Internet at no cost?

have everyone else do all the work for me while i sit back and collect the money

I sure hope you're kidding. Who do you think does the necessary programming, maintenance, record keeping, bill paying, etc.?

 

[MikePA]

you have to consider that this site does not generate anything of its own. this site is only as good as its members.

If a vendor wants to share information and their knowledge, i.e., act like any other member, fulfill the original purpose of the Internet, etc. they are more than welcome. There are, and have been, several vendors who participated in this fashion.

Explain to me why a vendor should be allowed to use TBN, or any other web site, as a free site for making sales and providing support.

This has nothing to do with 'net neutrality'.It has to do with, IMO, the integrity of the vendor who wanted something for nothing.

It's no different than if I had a lemonade stand in my front yard but I lived on a street that got very little traffic, the yard was filled with weeds, and my neighbors were crude and screamed profanity all the time plus the people who lived in my house were arrogant and watered down the lemonade.

But then I notice where you lived there was a lot of traffic, had a nice wide street and a wide driveway, a nice front yard that's always kept neat and clean and the people in the house were polite and friendly. You clearly spend a lot of time and money keeping your front yard nice. So I decide to relocate my lemonade stand to your front yard and you're supposed to not only allow this but not complain about it nor charge for it.

It's got nothing to do with the original purpose of the Internet, ARPAnet, etc. and everything to do with someone who wants to be nothing more than human cuckoo bird and a mooch.

I suppose there will always be people who want something for nothing, which actually means they want someone else to pay for it, then complain when they don't get it.The electronic version of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

 

[N80]

WE are the ones that make this site good.

That's exactly right, but the reason that WE (I think I speak for a lot of people) are here in the first place is precisely because of the way this site is run. And I can only speak for myself, but if the rules were relaxed here and this place became the chaotic and hateful types of places that are so common on the web than I would not be here. (Not that I contribute much of value but I suspect others feel the same way.) Its not a chicken/egg issue. Good rules and a good environment come first, then the valuable users come...and stay.

The other side is that the internet was created to share information (you know the original ARPANET that connected major universities for the soul purpose of sharing data) and NO one should have to pay more for the "best" information.

That's a pretty Eutopian vision of the internet, both in its origin and in what it should and should not be. And it all sounds fine and dandy until YOU are the one paying for the type of bandwidth and time required to keep a site like this going.

It is the ultimate Tom Sawer, have everyone else do all the work for me while i sit back and collect the money.

That's utterly ridiculous. A web site is exactly like any other enterprise ever created. It is what it is. And to denigrate what the owners and volunteers on this site do and pay to keep it successful is a bit myopic. I know for a fact there are many sites that are smaller than this and charge membership fees and do so very effectively. We use this one for free, image hosting and all!

as such you create "these" type of problems.

This problem was created by one individual out to make money of their own. So at best you have two organizations striving to make money in the market place....and man, that's just life in the modern world. At worst, you have one individual using bad taste and questionable business practices in order to take advantage of not only the owner of this site but also the "WE" that you speak of.