Any private pilots out here?

[Wacky]

I am tossing around the idea of purchasing my own aircraft, single engine. I have been renting but like the idea of owning. I would probably buy a 80's Cessna 172, or a Mooney. Anybody have any input on these maintenance and resale wise? I have not flown a low wing but am impressed at the Mooney's speed and weight. Thanks.

 

[Transit]

I have flown thousands of hours on business trips to remote sites. You need to justify the costs, yearly maintenance, air frame, engine, radios, annual inspection, Ads, insurance, tie-down or hanger rental. I had write off back then. When I worked for NASA I also had a partner to run a flight school/maintenance business. It is cheaper all around to rent.

 

[Kep]

You might try finding a local flying club, sometime group ownership can bring the costs down.

 

[Wacky]

I have flown thousands of hours on business trips to remote sites. You need to justify the costs, yearly maintenance, air frame, engine, radios, annual inspection, Ads, insurance, tie-down or hanger rental. I had write off back then. When I worked for NASA I also had a partner to run a flight school/maintenance business. It is cheaper all around to rent.

You are right, that is the main reason I am tossing the idea around. I just like the idea of "whenever". I do have a place and was planning a runway project on one of my farms. But the other costs are what is keeping it an "idea". Renting is probably going to remain, but I want to keep my options open. After-all, now is the time to buy.

 

[Wacky]

You might try finding a local flying club, sometime group ownership can bring the costs down.

Yeah, I have been offered partial ownership, that was another option. I like that idea as well.:thumbsup:

 

[RonMar]

I think if you do a cost analysis based just on maintenance, storage, insurance costs, ect, I think you will find you can fly rental for quite a large number of hours for the same basic annual cost. You would of course have to be logging more hours than this to justify your own plane economically. Then of course there is the capital outlay for the bird itself...

I don't make enough money to justify it personally. The only way that was practical for me would have been a kitplane and owner maintenance and checkoffs... Something with folding wings and trailer to home storage was quite economical, but a larger time cost...

 

[V1Rotate]

What is your experience level? How many hours do you have? Do you have an instrument rating? Do you have any time in high performance or retactable gear aircraft?

These are some questions that the insurance company will ask if are looking at a mooney. Besides the maintenance costs being higher for a retrctable gear airplane the insurance will be more and there may be additional flight training required for initial and recurrent training.
I agree with the others that unless you fly a lot, its a lot cheaper to rent. However, in the past I have had partnerships in a few planes where the only justifcation for me was the pride of ownership.

 

[pilot-werx]

Got my ticket when I was 18 and have never looked back. Best thing I have done as it opened up a whole new world. Have owned everything from a 152 (first plane) to my current amphibian turbine beaver. If you are serious I would look for a nice 172XP with a low time engine. The insurance is the same as a regular 172 but they perform like a supercub. I had one wipline amphib float and it was the best airplane until we outgrew it. Mooney's are nice and fast but are considered complex and high performance so you take a hit with insurance.

Ask away with any questions... I eat breath and sleep airplanes and helicopters!

 

[grsthegreat]

i used to have a 1/4 share in a 1980's era piper 180......biggest mistake i ever made. i never was able to use it when i needed it...it was always promised out to someone else. but i had to pony up 1/4 of the maint costs.

if you do decide to get one...get your own

hope your rich. there spendy to maintain. Right now theres all this chatter about eliminating 100LL fuel..if they do this alot of older aircraft wont be flying any time soon, unless a cost effective alternative comes around.

i know of several people trying to get rid of their older planes at this time before the market dies.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am a corporate pilot. I have a ATP, Commercial Single Engine, Instrument Rating, and a Flight Instructors Certificate for both Instrument and Multi-Engine. I have 7,500 hours of which 6,500 are in turbine airplanes and of that 4,000 hours in Jets. The job I have now is cushy and only fly 400 hours a year for the past 11 years I have been with this company. I have flow everything from a C-150 to 3 different corporate jets. Never owned a airplane in all that time.

Main reason is the cost. The easiest part of getting a airplane is buying it, just like a boat. The upkeep, insurance, hanger, ect make it very expensive. For a example my Co-Pilot has a Cherokee 180 and a Piper PA-17 Vagabond. He flies the Cherokee about 200 hours a year and the Vagabond about 75. When you do the math it cost him well over $100 per hour to fly the Cherokee factoring fuel, insurance, hanger, maintenance, ect. The little Vagabond only uses 3.5 gallons per hour but still is over $75 per hour to fly when its all said and done.

Having a strip at my home is my dream though. If I could have the airplane at home, in my hanger, and fuel it with my fuel then I would consider owning one. This pretty much rules out a Mooney since they are not the best on grass strips but can do it with some skill. I only have 25 hours in Mooney so I am no expert. If was to get something for around home I would get something to putt around in. C-152 C-120 C-140, Taylor Craft, Piper tail dragger, ect. If you need to take a trip let the airlines do it for you. I drive anything less then 4-5 hours and over that I buy a ticket just like everyone else. Just got back from a 3 day trip in Jacksonville, FL via Southwest airlines for $225. It would have cost $2000 for me to do the same trip in the Cherokee 180 I can rent for $100 per hour.

Chris

 

[grsthegreat]

I have a friend building a RV8 for his play toy. your right about it not being a cost effective transport over a long trip.

I used to take a turbo arrow IV for the weekend on hunting trips in calif. Id fly from van nuys to redding....a few hours each direction. maybe 5-6 total hours for the weekend (cant remember exact amount of time...been awhile), but split between 2 people, back in the 1980's, it was a cheap way to hunt over a weekend. It cost around $50/hr wet.

Now transport to 2011, man, no way could i afford this. Im just glad i flew while i could back then, cause now days my property, home, tractors, etc take all my money (hehe).

 

[Runner]

"...in the Cherokee 180 I can rent for $100 per hour."

Holy Cow!

Last time I rented, 20 years ago, it was about $45/hour. I had no idea it was that expensive these days.

Almost makes boating sound like cheap fun...

 

[V1Rotate]

Here in the northeast a Cherokee or a C-172 will cost you about 150 an hour to rent.

I also worked my way up through the ratings and now work as a corperate pilot flying jets. Back in the 90s I had partnerships in a few single engine planes and had tons of fun flying them all over the eastern part of the country. I don't think I would do that now because it's too expensive, but I don't want to discourage any one from living out their dreems. If you think you can afford it, go out and buy a plane, but before you do, learn as much as you can. Talk to other pilots and mechanics, also, there are some very good online pilot forums (much like TBN).

 

[Diamondpilot]

"...in the Cherokee 180 I can rent for $100 per hour."

Holy Cow!

Last time I rented, 20 years ago, it was about $45/hour. I had no idea it was that expensive these days.

Almost makes boating sound like cheap fun...

When I learned to fly in 1992 a Piper Tomahawk was $38.50 per hour. I saw one the other day going for $80 per hour. A Cessna 172 was $50 per hour, the same school was rent them for $155 per hour. I rented a Piper Seminole for $98 per hour and today they are near $300 per hour.

There will be a pilot shortage soon. Its just too expensive to learn to fly now day.

Chris

 

[scoutcub]

No experience with fixed wing, but I'm an ATP helo guy flying for the last 26 years. Do have a friend that owns 2 of his own planes, and he saves a LOT of money by having his A&P license as well.....

The only other thing I thought of is is it a possibility to rent/lease out your own aircraft when you're not using it? That would help defray the costs, and you could set the schedule when you want to use it.....but I don't know any of the particulars.
Like many other big "toys", planes can be very expensive ornaments if not used enough.
I've often thought about buying a helicopter, but am shaken back to reality when I look at the numbers.....
Good luck!

 

[Iowachild]

When I learned to fly in 1992 a Piper Tomahawk was $38.50 per hour. I saw one the other day going for $80 per hour. A Cessna 172 was $50 per hour, the same school was rent them for $155 per hour. I rented a Piper Seminole for $98 per hour and today they are near $300 per hour.

There will be a pilot shortage soon. Its just too expensive to learn to fly now day.

Chris

I did my primary training in a Tomahawk. In 1988 it was $35.00 wet, $55.oo with the instructor. Loved flying that airplane, just don't look at the tail wagging around during a stall!

Back to the OP, I am a member of The Warren Aviation Club now and it is the most economical way to fly in the area! Our 172 Is $83/hr wet.

 

[grsthegreat]

I did my primary training in a Tomahawk. In 1988 it was $35.00 wet, $55.oo with the instructor. Loved flying that airplane, just don't look at the tail wagging around during a stall!

Back to the OP, I am a member of The Warren Aviation Club now and it is the most economical way to fly in the area! Our 172 Is $83/hr wet.

i started with the Tomacrap also, and i made the mistake of looking at the tail during stalls........scary.

i jumped into the 180 shortly after that....afraid the plane would denigrate on me. Did most of my flying in the turbo arrow IV. now that plane i loved.

 

[Diamondpilot]

We all have our favorite plane. For me in the piston category its the Turbo Cessan 210. Turbo prop its the Pilatus PC-12, and jet its the Cessna Citation CJ.

These are just the ones I have flown. I have time in over 50 makes now but these stand out as good ones in my eyes.

Now that I think of it though there are lots of others. Like the C-182, Super Decathlon, Piper Arrow, C-172, Piper Seminole, Beech Barron, Piper Cheyenne, King Air 200, Beech Jet, Sabre 65, and the list goes on. I was told by a old timer once that airplanes are like pickups. There is no bad ones, just some better ones.

Chris

 

[Dennisfly]

I've been flying professionally for 38 years, presently in a Gulfstream. I've thought about owning at times, but never seriously. The numbers just don't pencil out.

My story of expense, inflation, and the value of the dollar, is that I started lessons in 1969 in a Cessna 150 which was $12 an hour and the instructor was $6. At the time, it seemed pretty expensive and I took a loan from my parents to finish the private license. After that, it was G. I. bill for the advanced ratings and it paid 90% at the time. Now, my annual five day recurrent training in the Gulfstream is about $13,000 at the lowest bidder. I will say its been a wonderful career with experiences that I never imagined when I was a kid.

My brother has a Cessna 180 which he owns free and clear, and he offered to let me take and use it at will, as long as I maintain it and pay all the associated expenses. I turned him down. I'd rather just be on my tractor than flying to the next town to purchase the proverbial $100 hamburger!

 

[mjw357]

C-182R is my personal favorite. Learned in C-152's, have flown Piper Cherokee and Cherokee 6.

You pay a lot for the convenience of having a plane in the hangar at home. For it to economically make sense (it never really makes economic sense though) you have to fly around 200 hrs a year. But if you got the dough and want to do it, why not?