any downside to hst?

[texasjohn]

If you find yourself in a ditch situation where a HST won't climb out.... put it in a lower gear and make sure it is at 2000+ RPM... the problem is the gear SELECTION, not the HST.

Just like with gears... if you try to climb out and the engine dies, put it in a lower gear.

Me, I prefer the HST for its extreme speed and position control for FEL work. Even for folks with some field work to do, I bet that they spend more hours with their CUT doing precision stuff with FEL or mowing or 3PH hitch attachments other than ground engaging equipment.

However, as has been fully covered numerous places in TBN... to each his own based on personal preferences.

 

[Soundguy]

Sounds like it will be a decent machine.

Soundguy

 

[k54frog]

7-9-06 9:16 #39 pg4
Originally Posted by AutoUnionTypeC
Well I drive a manual shift VW, New Beetle TDi, it has air conditioning but I only run it to keep it charged. Don't know what else to say, except.....................Got 50 MPG?

7-9-06 9:21 #40 pg4

I guess we are both happy; my pickup is a 445 hp diesel with over 1000 ft. lbs. of torque and weighs almost 8000 pounds. I can tow a 15,000 pound trailer over 100 mph. Don't pull out in front of me.

Sounds like a classic case of 'some days you're the bug and some days you're the...?truck?'

Seriously folks, I'm new here and am greatly appreciating the abundance of knowledge and experience everyone is willing to share.
I had some questions about the hst vs gear issue and found my answer right in this thread.
I am probably the on the small side of users here (1 acre including house). With several medium size projects and an erratic work schedule which makes renting difficult, I have decided to buy a small (20)hp tractor. The convenience of having it available any time I want will be indispensable vs. trying to rent a B21 for a day then getting called back to work only to annoy the neighbors by firing it up in the evening and using it until 11pm .
Information which has been most helpful in this decision has included:
1)Matching the type of work I'm likely to be doing most to the type of tranny (mostly FEL & light scraping/tilling/ripping/hole digging). The longest straight line run I can make is about 200 feet from corner to corner if I dodge the tree in the middle.
2)My knees aren't as good as they used to be .
3) I have ear plugs that filter out the high pitched whine of a HST (my lawn mower is a 20hp 42" Craftsman LT1000 w/hydro)
4) My wife will want to play with it too.
5) I'll most likely be dead before it needs any repair work.
So...it looks like the HST for me!!!
On a related note: I was looking at a 32hp FEL/BH with lots of 6' implements but by being patient the testosterone flash subsided, hehe.
And thanks to all the local dealers who over the past year have learned to leave me alone while I just sit on their tractors and go vroom vroom (what sound does a tractor make really anyway?)
Thanks again for all your help, -Kenny-

"A candle is not diminished by giving another candle light" unk

 

[Ledgemere Farm]

I don't like to generalize because there are ALWAYS exceptions, but homeowner/gentleman farmer landscaper = hydro. Real farm = gear.

The only pure fact is that you need to try them yourself and see which you like better.

 

[dirtworksequip]

GreenRules, good rule of thumb for hystat or gear. I had a JD 870 gear and went to a3520 hystat w/cab. Not really impressed by hystat yet.Thats what I told my neighbor"Hystats were made for gentlemen farmers" I do love the cab though.

 

[ridgerunnerinwv]

GreenRules, good rule of thumb for hystat or gear. I had a JD 870 gear and went to a3520 hystat w/cab. Not really impressed by hystat yet.Thats what I told my neighbor"Hystats were made for gentlemen farmers" I do love the cab though.

You don't know me and how I operate my hydro,150,000 board feet + in logs skidded 3/4 of a mile over the last three years,I have worn out the axle housing where the lower lift arms are attatched where I have skidded so many logs and graded so many roads . The only thing I have not busted on my tractor is the Yamnar 3 cylinder diesel engine and hydro,I have replaced 3 steering cylinders and ring and pinion gear and drive shaft because of the constant wear on the front end, in a matter of fact I found 2 whole front ends on ebay and bought them both for $500 apiece because they have so many parts if they were itemized would cost about $4000 through JD,the tie rod ends are a little over $200 apiece and I have worn out a bunch of these and welded them and repaired them, also replaced 2 differental locks.The hydro has not failed yet. I am on my 3rd cable for my Farmi winch from winching in so many logs.I have had to do a little welding on my front end loader because of the stress cracks. Me a gentlemen farmer , I do not think so, a stressed and abused John Deere 4400 yes...I forgot I had to split the tractor because I broke a shifting for on my range selector.I have way overused this tractor,but the Yamnar engine and the hydro has not let me down.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Sorry if I offended you ridgerunner, but with all those repairs it sounds like you bought the wrong machine. If you had the right machine for the job you are doing you would not have to be abusing it as you have. I'd surely hate to see your poor tractor. What a shame.
If you have sold all that timber you can afford to buy a used siddder or small dozer and do the job right without abusing any machine.But to each his own and have fun!!!

 

[MadReferee]

I don't like to generalize because there are ALWAYS exceptions, but homeowner/gentleman farmer landscaper = hydro. Real farm = gear.

And REAL heavy equipment users = hydro. Cat bulldozers have been using hydros for years now. JD tractors over 100 hp use hydros. Your analogy just doesn't fly anymore. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago but not now.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Yes, heavy equipment with hystats are GREAT! I own Caterpillar 2004 D3GXL,2003 277 track skidsteer & 2004 308CCR excavator. Hystat is the ultimate on these machines. The D3G will do things a geared D3 can't. On the hystat machines you work the machine it doesn't work you.Ease of operation is unreal.
Hystats are great I did not say they were not. I was just agreeing with GreeneRule's general rule of thumb. IT DOES NOT FIT EVERYONE. So if it doesn't fit you don't get mad.

 

[JerryG]

JD tractors over 100 hp use hydros.

Which model?

 

[patrick_g]

dknarnd, The HST "CRUISE" is just a mechanical device that is the equivalent of clamping the HST pedal in a fixed position. It should hold that same positon for centuries or until the tractor corrodes away. It makes no dynamic adjustments to anything so you go slower uphill and faster down but you can diddle thte throttle a bit to compensate if you feel it to be important. Heavy grass will slow your BH work and sparse areas will let you go faster. This cruise will not compensate.

It saves leg cramps and makes brush hogging more tollerable. They "cross couple" the "CRUISE" with the brakes so if you hit the brakes it releases the hydrostat cruise.

I think the cruise is a very wonderful convenience for some tasks. Sometimes I wish the hand throttle were cross coupled with the brakes so it went to idle when you hit the brakes.

Pat

 

[MadReferee]

Which model?

I supose I should have been more specific in my comment. The larger tractors have the equivalent of what Kubota calls GST. The self-propelled line of harvester machines comes with Deere's version of a hydrostatic transmission as standard equipment.

 

[patrick_g]

MOSSROAD, Great explanation. It is alway interesting to answer a question about how high is up and how long is a roll of string.

I have an HST and the book says, I think, 39 or 39.5 PTO HP. The book lists the MORE POWERFUL gear tranny version at 40 HP to the PTO. Gee, if only I hadn't lost ALL THAT POWER just to get fantastic convenience.

There is no one anywhere that can out tractor my HST Kubota while driving an old fashioned NEEDS TO BE CLUTCHED TO CHANGE DIRECTIONS tractor of equal HP in any task requiring manuvering and changing directions from going forward to back, say a FEL job. I'd spot you 30% more HP and still out work you while holding a soda in my hand. If the old technology tractor is 2 wheel drive you can have 60 HP and I will still out work you by a fair margin say loading a pile of dirt on the ground into a dump truck.

Row croppers don't run HST.

HST is a tad more complicated but if you buy a good brand and take care of it it there is no BIG DEAL to it. You don't take your HST down to the good ole boy who took a tractor apart once before when he was doin' a little county time and don't think it could be all that difficult to fix your little bitty tractor. Same sort of cleanliness and care required as in auto tranny work. Take it to an experienced person, preferably with factory training in that brand.

Luckily, my Kubota dealer has one of the best mechs I have ever watched and he is very knowlegeable on Kubota (or M1A1/2 Abrams Main Battle Tank or a Deuce or ... as he is a Desert Storm vet, army trained too.)

Pat

 

[john_bud]

Patrick, I have to agree, but ... well let me explain.

I have a Kubota L3410 HST and the LA481 loader. It has a 9.9 cu ft bucket and with loaded tires and a LARGE gannon box blade on the back weighs about 6500 pounds. I also have a 1963 Ford 4140 HD industrial with a super duty loader with a 3/4 yard bucket and 14' hoe. The ford weighs in at 9000 pounds. And yes, for most FEL work, the HST with 4x4 will just bury the old ford in dirt moved.

However, when I have to move the dirt longer distances, like 150 ft or more, it narrows down. The Kubota needs to be in low to get a full bucket and in medium for transport. That's 2 full stopped range changes per cycle. The Ford just selects the right gear, goes a bit faster has a larger load, so the gap narrows and may even swap depending on distance traveled. But, I could NEVER drink a pop while running the Ford! LOL. The Kubota can move the pile where the pile stops the Ford. The Kubota can also back up a hill with a full bucket and the Ford can't. 4x4 is a beautful thing.

Now on your spotting 60 hp ... If I use a Ford 755 TLB with a 2 yard bucket and we load trucks that have 10' sidewalls..... how much did you want to bet??? LOL!!

Have a great day!
jb

 

[ridgerunnerinwv]

Sorry if I offended you ridgerunner, but with all those repairs it sounds like you bought the wrong machine. If you had the right machine for the job you are doing you would not have to be abusing it as you have. I'd surely hate to see your poor tractor. What a shame.
If you have sold all that timber you can afford to buy a used siddder or small dozer and do the job right without abusing any machine.But to each his own and have fun!!!

You never offended me,I had no plans of timbering 5 years ago when I bought the tractor,the timbering is done and the tractor is repaired and virtually restored back to new condition. It would not have been practical to buy a skidder,or a dozer . The roads were already in place,a dozer is not good to move timber with when doing a lot of skidding. If I had it to do over I would have bought a 5000 series John Deere,that is if I knew I was going to be timbering when I originally bought the tractor.The timber I cut a 5000 series would not have had any problem.

 

[ridgerunnerinwv]

And REAL heavy equipment users = hydro. Cat bulldozers have been using hydros for years now. JD tractors over 100 hp use hydros. Your analogy just doesn't fly anymore. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago but not now.

John Deere dozers have hydros.

 

[JerryG]

I supose I should have been more specific in my comment. The larger tractors have the equivalent of what Kubota calls GST. The self-propelled line of harvester machines comes with Deere's version of a hydrostatic transmission as standard equipment.

It would be beneficial to look at the breakdown on how the transmissions are made on the larger JD tractors more closely.

 

[john_bud]

Yeah, good point Jerry! Transmissions today are so advanced. It's hard to say how to define a gear trans from a shuttle shift, power shift, a GST or even a good old Ford SOS! So many factors overlap and so many are completely different. I read about one of the new Deere trans that is part HST and part CVT (cool tech in a tractor!).

jb

 

[Soundguy]

Is the 4400 a powershift?

soundguy

You don't know me and how I operate my hydro,150,000 board feet + in logs skidded 3/4 of a mile over the last three years,I have worn out the axle housing where the lower lift arms are attatched where I have skidded so many logs and graded so many roads . The only thing I have not busted on my tractor is the Yamnar 3 cylinder diesel engine and hydro,I have replaced 3 steering cylinders and ring and pinion gear and drive shaft because of the constant wear on the front end, in a matter of fact I found 2 whole front ends on ebay and bought them both for $500 apiece because they have so many parts if they were itemized would cost about $4000 through JD,the tie rod ends are a little over $200 apiece and I have worn out a bunch of these and welded them and repaired them, also replaced 2 differental locks.The hydro has not failed yet. I am on my 3rd cable for my Farmi winch from winching in so many logs.I have had to do a little welding on my front end loader because of the stress cracks. Me a gentlemen farmer , I do not think so, a stressed and abused John Deere 4400 yes...I forgot I had to split the tractor because I broke a shifting for on my range selector.I have way overused this tractor,but the Yamnar engine and the hydro has not let me down.

 

[Soundguy]

And REAL heavy equipment users = hydro. Cat bulldozers have been using hydros for years now. JD tractors over 100 hp use hydros. Your analogy just doesn't fly anymore. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago but not now.

Just flipping thru a couple NH manuals, and some JD and cat HE manuals.. i see lots of cat and JD equipment with torque converters in the tranny.. I don't see alot of torque converters on many tractor HST trannies.

Perhaps we are being a bit loose in what is a 'hydro' trans.. etc.

Soundguy