any downside to hst?

[NoMo]

We've seemed to drift off-topic, so I'll throw this out for discussion-

Has anyone ever tried to pull-start a HST tractor?
I've pull-started an automobile with automatic transmission.

In respect to battery failure (or disappearance), will the new "gear" tractors with electric PTO, digital guages, safety switches, etc. operate without a good source of battery power?

 

[Soundguy]

I wholeheartedly agree. If I did anything more than incedental loader work.. i think an upgrade to a plain gear tranny would be in order.

Soundguy

Soundguy,
You'd be dead broke BECAUSE you're be divorced.

I've got a gear tranny and it's OK to do a lot of shifting for fun. But man, when you start doing some serious loader work clutching every few seconds for hours at a time becomes a real drag. .

 

[Soundguy]

>In respect to battery failure (or disappearance), will the new "gear" tractors >with electric PTO, digital guages, safety switches, etc. operate without a >good source of battery power

In many cases.. I'd guess you would need a battery on the cables.. but it could be your pickup battery.. Even if your truck battery won't get the cat 3208 started... it will be a fine load for the alternator on the machine, and should make the electronics happy.

Older diesels with lo/no electronics and gennies will be more tolerant of a missing battery.

Low batteries needing to be charged shouldn't be an issue.. unless they have bad cells.

Pullstart an HST.??? Hmmm... My first thought would be no.. but then.. I've never tried to pull start a small HST tractor. I know you can't pull start construction equipment that has hyd/hst/auto trans.

Soundguy

 

[slowrev]

If I were going to pick a tranny on it's ability to be pull started, I would have to wonder how often the tractor is going to fail and if it is a dependable unit.

I've jump started very large detroit diesels that ran huge compressors(something like 1200CFM @ 40PSI) to huff start massive turboprop and jet engines on airliners, so, I figured it would work on a tractor. Remove the open battery from the circuit(or batteries, as ours were four 6V in series/parallel) and start it off the jumper vehicle. Once it is running, disconnect the jumpers and off you go. The battery cables were no larger than our jumper cables, so I don't see why they wouldn't work. Perhaps you are thinking of jumping it off a car battery and I am thinking something larger, like a tractor battery. We jumped truck to truck, so maybe your jumper vehicle had a small battery compared to your tractors? I frequently jump started my 50PTO hp IH off of my pickup truck with no problems. I did have a huge battery in it, though.

Pretty much, yes the 5000 had the biggest battery on the farm except fot the D6 (which was on the other side of the farm) . But the battery was not just dead it was open, a bit worse to jump.
My point is that on a gear tranny diesel you can roll or pull start them as a last resort option, you don't have that option on hydro tranny tractor. Your starter or solenoid go out and you are just down. Or in our case the battery went open.
So we just put the truck battery in there to run the string tie mechanism on the bailer and pull started it. The truck battey was just too small to even turn the engine over.
We did get a new battery on Monday when the CNH dealer opened, and all is well now

 

[MossRoad]

...Has anyone ever tried to pull-start a HST tractor? ...

No. My old IH specifically said not to pull it with the engine off. Well, it didn't say it, of course... tractors can't talk. But the operators manual had a section on towing the unit. You had to put the range selcetor in neutral and add several gallons of fluid to the tranny. Then I think you had to manipulate a valve on the case somewhere, but I could be mistaken. After you towed it to where you were going, you had to drain the tranny back down to the proper level, maniplate the valve again, etc....

My current Power Trac is different in design in that I don't have a tranny at all, just a variable volume pump that supplies fluid to four hydraulic motors, one at each wheel. On that pump, you have to open a bypass valve to tow it or you will damage the pump. So I'd assume that you can't pull start it, either.

 

[Limecuda]

Don't believe pull starting a tractor will be the reason for me selecting a tractor. I want ease of operation. I am seriously looking at HST.

 

[Soundguy]

I don't think any -single- feature should solely determine what tractor you buy.. unless it is simply a 'must' have feature, reguardless of all other criteria.

Soundguy

 

[daTeacha]

:Speaking from the perspective of a guy with electrical problems involving door locks and a sunroof, I have to agree with that. It's also pretty typical of the dilemma folks face when buying anything, including internet use.

You can get the easier/faster/better more expensive version, like my wireless broadband or you go with the older/slower cheaper version, like my dialup. I like the broadband much better, WHEN IT WORKS. Living where I do, it's about 85% reliable normally, about 25% if it's raining. The dialup is always there but agonizingly slow by comparison. Sometimes I like the dialup, sometimes the broadband.

Maybe we all need several tractors each with a different type of tranny.

 

[slowrev]

I don't think any -single- feature should solely determine what tractor you buy.. unless it is simply a 'must' have feature, reguardless of all other criteria.

Soundguy

Agreed, the topic was looking for any downsides to HST though.

 

[slowrev]

>In respect to battery failure (or disappearance), will the new "gear" tractors >with electric PTO, digital guages, safety switches, etc. operate without a >good source of battery power

Agreed. That is why I like the older simpler tractors better. KISS.

 

[NoMo]

No. My old IH specifically said not to pull it with the engine off. Well, it didn't say it, of course... tractors can't talk. But the operators manual had a section on towing the unit. You had to put the range selcetor in neutral and add several gallons of fluid to the tranny. Then I think you had to manipulate a valve on the case somewhere, but I could be mistaken. After you towed it to where you were going, you had to drain the tranny back down to the proper level, maniplate the valve again, etc....

Talking tractors- they probably aren't too far off in the future.

It's pretty interesting reading about all of the HST variations available.
My JD manual indicates that towing the machine for "short distances" is OK... but only at 10MPH or less. No special procedure other than the common-sense stuff of tranny in neutral, PTO & parking brake off, etc.

 

[Soundguy]

Hey Mossroad. On the old ford SOS, you had to open a traction disconnect linkage at the rear of the tractor so you could tow them. So that must be a very common theme.. thusly, you couldn't pullstart them either.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[MossRoad]

Hey Mossroad. On the old ford SOS, you had to open a traction disconnect linkage at the rear of the tractor so you could tow them. So that must be a very common theme.. thusly, you couldn't pullstart them either.. etc.

Soundguy

Man, I'm learning all kinds of stuff in this discussion.

I need to get out and try the shuttle shift and other types of trannies besides the staight gear and HST. That would be fun.... Again, the subject of a tractor rodeo comes up! What a fun way to compare things. A bunch of TBN folks, a couple dozen tractors, some fields that need mowing, some piles of dirt to move, some sod plowing, etc.... wouldn't that be a heck of a weekend?

 

[SkyPup]

My old Massey 1030 HST has been working just fine for the last 22 years without a single problem.

Won't be long and most all the antiques will be HST!!!

 

[Mith]

I'm the kinda guy who rates a tractor on the number of levers it has (the Kubota was great, I didnt know what some levers did )
When somebody else gets on your tractor its far less impressive to say, press that to go forwards, that to reverse. I like saying, thats the clutch, brake, 2 gear levers, throttle........

I do alot of pushing dirt with a blade, changing gear gets tiring, I grind the gears, I roll down hills......hate it. But I dont think a hydro would stick the abuse.
With my gear if I cant straight pull something I reverse up to it and lauch off in a high gear to jerk it into moving. I shouldnt think you would do that with a hydro many times.
I also dont like the fact that all the engines power cant be transmitted by a hydro, the are losses, and there is no direct link from engine to wheels.

Loader work for sure, hydro. Mowing, hydro. Heavy crush cutting, gear/hydro. Towing, gear. Abuse, gear. Having a more 'tractorlike' tractor, gear. Wheelspins and wheelies, gear

 

[FamilyFarm]

Mith,
Most of your HST concerns are unfounded, but no question not everyone needs or wants the same transmission on a tractor. There may be power loss for the same engine compared to gear, but it's not like you feel the loss when using the tractor. It's not like the engine suddenly bogs down because it has HST. In your example of needing to pull something, I would consider it an advantage that the engine can be revved for max power, get maximum pulling power while still easing the HST pedal in low range - no need for jerking anything, especially if you have 4WD plus differential lock. Why is it necessary to abuse a tractor to use it and how does the hydro get harmed easier? I might be missing something, but I think there is a misconception that the HST unit is not tough. JMHO!
Terry

 

[Soundguy]

The lack of power issue i believe is aimed at the relief setting. There ahve been messages in the past where a tractor was in a low spot and actually couldn't climb out due to relief bypassing.

Aside from that.. i would think the hydro might be easier at starting a heavy rolling load.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[Doc_Bob]

I need to get out and try the shuttle shift and other types of trannies besides the staight gear and HST.

Try a powershuttle (New Holland). They work very well.
Bob

 

[slowrev]

The new synchronized shuttle shift gear trannies are great.

Ben

 

[gaizy]

I have a 1920 2-WD NH and plan on trading it in on a L4330 this weekend. I drove all three models and like the GST and HST over the FST model. I'm leaning towards the HST, even after reading about all the pros and cons posted on this site. I believe it will be great for pulling my LP 2568 finish mower (mow approx. 5-6 acres). I also plan to buy a HD disc harrow and LP 1860 rotary cutter to pull behind the 4330 for my deer food plots.