Antifreeze in Oil

Iowachild · Apr 10, 2006

I am draining the crankcase oil out of the Ford 1310 I bought recently (3 cylinder diesel) and the first thing to come out was what appeared to be antifreeze. I'm guessing a cup or so. Other than "it ain't good", what problem should I look for. Head gasket? Water Pump gasket? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

From where the tractor is sitting it's only about 3 block to a river and all downhill, so that is an option! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ToadHill · Apr 10, 2006

The most likely culpret is the head gasket. A water pump gasket leak would let the fluid drop on the ground, not in the oil.

MrJimi · Apr 10, 2006

Warning!! anti-freeze will eat bearings!! I found out the hard way, be careful and totally rebuild the engine and dont cut any corners anywhere
Jim /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RobJ · Apr 11, 2006

Check you antifreeze(radiator) to. you may see some oil in there or bubbling when it's running.

Dargo · Apr 11, 2006

Maybe I'm wrong, but a best case senario would be a head gasket. Worst case, you have a cracked passage in the block and the engine is shot. Nobody will be able to diagnose for you over the net. Your best bet would be to get someone you trust to give you their professional opinion. In many cases, you could just be done. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Iowachild · Apr 11, 2006

Check you antifreeze(radiator) to. you may see some oil in there or bubbling when it's running. 


Maybe I'm wrong, but a best case senario would be a head gasket. 

I am certainly hoping for best case scenario. I have drained the antifreeze and did not see any oil in in. Right now I have the fuel tank and instrument panel off, so I can't start it to see if there are bubbles in the radiator when running. I need to get things back together enough to get in inside the garage to tear it down further.
So, just out of curiosity.......am I the only first time tractor buyer that broke all the rules of buying a used tractor? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

HGM · Apr 11, 2006

Could this tractor have been neglected in the past? Maybe its excessive condensation build up???? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifIts really a streach but maybe......

As for the other possibilities, I agree with Dargo that its most likely a head gasket.. Try pressurizing the cooling system with the oil drain plug out (if you have a block heater, have it plugged in too).. If coolant drips out of the drain, you know its coolant, the head will probably be easy enough to remove and inspect the gasket..

Just a couple things to think about... If it doesnt drip out when pressurized, I'd put it together and run it.. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif(you didnt mention the running condition before the oil change)

PILOON · Apr 11, 2006

Once the head is pulled, if it is the gasket you will know it as the gasket will show deteriation where it leaked.

I bet on the gasket.

For craked block or head you would have had other problems such as over heating to have caused that to happen.

Once you determine a gasket failure to be the cause, you will probably want to check the head for flatness as heads in general often tend to have warped after time.

Good luck, and I hope it's only the gasket!

normde2001 · Apr 12, 2006

"I am draining the crankcase oil out of the Ford 1310 I bought recently (3 cylinder diesel) and the first thing to come out was what appeared to be antifreeze.'

Could what "appears" to be antifreeze be just water? I wouldn't get all crazy over this until I changed the oil and kept an eye on it. Water in the oil is not all that unusual, especially if a machine has been kept outdoors.

Iowachild · Apr 12, 2006

Thanks to all that have responded. I agree I did state it appeared to be antifreeze. Tried to tell as I drained the oil from the pan to my storage container, but couldn't tell anything other than water was present. I have refilled the crankcase with oil and a flush agent and installed a new filter. I will fill the radiator with water and radiator flush and I have drained the trans/hydralic fluid and put in new with two cans of Seafoam Transtune. My plan is to run it with all these in place for an hour or so than drain everything again. The machine had not seen proper maintenance in a long, long time and I'm just hoping it's not too late. Maybe I'm just.... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

AKfish · Apr 15, 2006

Getting the tractor back together and running again will sure help with diagnosing the problem. (You didn't say if it was running OK before you drained the oil.)
It seems to me that pressurizing the cooling system would verify a leak versus just condensation or possible water collecting from the exhaust pipe (if it has been sitting outside for a long stretch of time), etc.
Definitely a bad head gasket is a better outcome than a cracked block. I'm no Ford expert and don't know if your tractor is a wet-sleeved engine, though.
Along this line, I'm wondering if you had a split sleeve; could that be the source of the coolant? That'd be a better problem to have than the block busted --- more work and parts to replace (gaskets, etc.) than the head gasket --- but definitely cheaper to fix than replacing the block!
Maybe some of the 'ol Ford diesel guys can chime in and speak to this possibility. My .02 sence /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
AKfish

Iowachild · Apr 16, 2006

(You didn't say if it was running OK before you drained the oil.)

I guess that would depend on your definition of "running OK"! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
It ran, but did not want to idle at all. It smoked (mostly black in color) heavily. It seemed to lack power. As I stated earlier in the thread, I don't believe it had seen maintenance in quite a while. The air filter was filthy and rusted, the fuel filter was filthy, partially sucked in and had some water in the bowel. It ran a bit better after replacing those filters. Right now I am waiting on parts so I can re-install the fuel tank and instrument panel. When I get that done I can hopefully get it running again and further check out the situation. It was sitting outside when I bought it and it looks as though it has spent most of it's life outside. As I said, I could now write a book on how not to buy a used tractor. If I was smart, and knew for sure my wife wouldn't shoot me, I'd eat my pride and the loss in money, see what it is worth in scrap and start looking again for something I could actually use. I guess if I were into restoring old tractors it would be one thing, but if I were I'd pick something that parts were easier to find. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

frank_f15 · Apr 16, 2006

Don't be to hard on yourself. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif you may just have bought a gem in the rough. might have been a machine that was just neglected and will run fine with a little care . ARE you sure that it was anti-freeze or just plain water(condensation) makes world of difference!

Iowachild · May 13, 2006

ARE you sure that it was anti-freeze or just plain water(condensation) makes world of difference! 

Well I have spent the last few weeks tearing down the machine and my answer is.....I'm still not sure. I have certainly found several problems. the head gasket was leaking for sure. There was no thermostat in the machine. The injectors have probably never seen any maintenance and the pre-chambers were shot. The valves really were due for lapping and II replace the valve stem seals although they didn't look as bad as the rest of the machine. Road bearings were within limits. Right now I have everything back together and I am waiting to get my injectors back from the rebuilder. I also have a problem with a Diesel Kiki control valve on the FEL (see thread in Parts/Repairs) that I assume I will have to send to a hydraulic shop. I have also re-wired the entire machine and am replacing all the hydraulic hoses. Hopefully I will have this machine ready to do some work by Memorial Day week-end, if not no later than mid June when I have some vacation scheduled. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Iowachild · May 25, 2006

Don't be to hard on yourself. you may just have bought a gem in the rough. 

OK Frank,

I can be hard on myself now. I got everything back together, got the engine running, smoking problem really pretty much improved, but then I see coolant dripping off the frame. It appears to be coming from the block in an area behind the starter where I can't really see. I shut down the machine, pull off the starter and start scraping on the area. Long story short, there is a crack and a hole about 3/16" in diameter in the block that has been covered over with something like JB Weld, or even body putty and then painted. Guess it held for a while, but not anymore. In addition there is coolant in the oil again, so I'm guessing there is an internal crack to match. So now I can be really hard on myself because I have added several hundred dollars to the money I was already out. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Iowachild · May 25, 2006

Don't be to hard on yourself. you may just have bought a gem in the rough. 

OK Frank,

I can be hard on myself now. I got everything back together, got the engine running, smoking problem really pretty much improved, but then I see coolant dripping off the frame. It appears to be coming from the block in an area behind the starter where I can't really see. I shut down the machine, pull off the starter and start scraping on the area. Long story short, there is a crack and a hole about 3/16" in diameter in the block that has been covered over with something like JB Weld, or even body putty and then painted. Guess it held for a while, but not anymore. In addition there is coolant in the oil again, so I'm guessing there is an internal crack to match. So now I can be really hard on myself because I have added several hundred dollars to the money I was already out. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SailorBob · May 26, 2006

Sorry to hear that. The guy you bought it from probably knew it too. He just unloaded it on you. That is really crappy. I hope you did not pay too much..I don't know if it can be fixed some of the mechanics on this forum will probably chime in.

SailorBob · May 26, 2006

Sorry to hear that. The guy you bought it from probably knew it too. He just unloaded it on you. That is really crappy. I hope you did not pay too much..I don't know if it can be fixed some of the mechanics on this forum will probably chime in.