Another rollover

[nebraskasparks]

Just read today on the site about another tip of a tractor. Many have done it and survived and many of us (self included) have come very very close.

There are so many people buying tractors for the first time and getting advice on TBN that we need to get the word out every day that slope and increasing FEL height will kill us.

If you google "slope and front end loaders" you'll start reading some disturbing reports. When you look at the tractor that's tipped over you'll often see the FEL above the hood of the tractor. The advice of keeping the load at front axle level is very sound advice. Putting weight on the rear end is also essential. I still haven't found a good graph yet but I'm still searching.

I think it's essential when addressing those of us that have made new purchases that the hydraulics of old and new equipment will exceed the stability of keeping four tires on the ground. We can save some folks by repeating this message over and over.

 

[Mace Canute]

Part of the problem too IMHO is some of these FELs are quite large for the weight of the tractor they are on. It's like a guy at a dance...when he is dancing with a slim little gal, he swings her about. When he dances with Big Bertha, he gets swung about. Say no to Big Bertha FELs!

 

[texasjohn]

One message that needs to get thru is that all CUTs need sufficient weight to more than counterbalance the FEL and 3PH hydraulic capacity. They do NOT come this way, you, the user, must add it.

This is not a shortcoming of any brand or model tractor, rather a statement regarding the flexibility of these beasts.

Front weights
loaded tires
tire weights
rear weight

You must be capable of adding sufficient weight such that you CANNOT raise the rear or front of your tractor when chaining down the FEL or 3PH to an immovable object. The hydraulic relief valve must give before your tractor leaves the ground.... and sufficiently before such that you maintain good ground traction.

Now, you don't have to carry all the weight all the time, adjust it to match the task you are doing.

If you have the weight available, now we are down to needing good judgment as to when and how much to use when rigging for a particular task. And to proper operation as to FEL height, vehicle velocity, terrain, rotational speed, etc.

Myself, I'm capable of rigging as follows

loaded tires..... 1100 lbs total....always there

FEL bucket.....never removed unless for a different implement..forks, etc. Can load with rock/material for extra front load

Always have an implement on 3PH unless something hitched to drawbar.

Implements include..back hoe, shredder, disk harrow with 500 lbs rock sitting on top, box blade with 1000 lbs extra weight sitting on it, rear hay fork with extra 250 lbs on it.

Took me a while to collect all the weights to permanently leave them on each implement, but well worth it.

Always chain to drawbar, never to 3PH, thus keeping pull BELOW rear axle.

Nebraskasparks, excellent points you make!

 

[nebraskasparks]

One message that needs to get thru is that all CUTs need sufficient weight to more than counterbalance the FEL and 3PH hydraulic capacity. They do NOT come this way, you, the user, must add it.

This is not a shortcoming of any brand or model tractor, rather a statement regarding the flexibility of these beasts.

Front weights
loaded tires
tire weights
rear weight

You must be capable of adding sufficient weight such that you CANNOT raise the rear or front of your tractor when chaining down the FEL or 3PH to an immovable object. The hydraulic relief valve must give before your tractor leaves the ground.... and sufficiently before such that you maintain good ground traction.

Now, you don't have to carry all the weight all the time, adjust it to match the task you are doing.

If you have the weight available, now we are down to needing good judgment as to when and how much to use when rigging for a particular task. And to proper operation as to FEL height, vehicle velocity, terrain, rotational speed, etc.

Myself, I'm capable of rigging as follows

loaded tires..... 1100 lbs total....always there

FEL bucket.....never removed unless for a different implement..forks, etc. Can load with rock/material for extra front load

Always have an implement on 3PH unless something hitched to drawbar.

Implements include..back hoe, shredder, disk harrow with 500 lbs rock sitting on top, box blade with 1000 lbs extra weight sitting on it, rear hay fork with extra 250 lbs on it.

Took me a while to collect all the weights to permanently leave them on each implement, but well worth it.

Always chain to drawbar, never to 3PH, thus keeping pull BELOW rear axle.

Nebraskasparks, excellent points you make!

There have been excellent points made by many people here at TBN...it's never too late to learn.

 

[nebraskasparks]

Part of the problem too IMHO is some of these FELs are quite large for the weight of the tractor they are on. It's like a guy at a dance...when he is dancing with a slim little gal, he swings her about. When he dances with Big Bertha, he gets swung about. Say no to Big Bertha FELs!

Great analogy...it's all about weight, balance and moment arms. Big Bertha can kill you.

 

[jlsmith]

Its also about common sence. If it dont feel right dont do it. I think the dealer is also a BIG part in teaching the customer proper safty with a tractor too. I spend any where from 2 to 6 hrs with a customer I know hasnt been around tractors to make shure he/she is comfortable with the tractor and knows the do's and dont's with it JMHO :thumbsup:

 

[zene55]

I am a new tractor owner and very concerned with this problem. I wanted to ask some questions about tire loading? 1. Who is equiped to do it? 2. How much does it cost? 3. Are there any drawbacks?

 

[TripleR]

I am a new tractor owner and very concerned with this problem. I wanted to ask some questions about tire loading? 1. Who is equiped to do it? 2. How much does it cost? 3. Are there any drawbacks?

I know my limitations, so I had mine done by the dealer. Any Ag tire dealer can also do it. The cost is going to vary depending on what you use, calcium, beet juice/Rimguard, windshield wiper fluid, water...

 

[bigballer]

I am a new tractor owner and very concerned with this problem. I wanted to ask some questions about tire loading? 1. Who is equiped to do it? 2. How much does it cost? 3. Are there any drawbacks?

check with the big tire shops, my local shop brought out beetjuice and it cost me about $225 which is why i put if off the first 2 years of owning my tractor.. that was stupid, had i known the difference it would make i would have paid 2x that and had it done before the dealer delivered it!

having said that i am still very cautious on slopes and try to go up/down vs across whenever i can and regardless of having anything in the bucket i keep it so low it's just clearing the ground.. i want to keep the center of gravity as low as possible at all times.. maybe i have watched/read too many rollover videos/stories..

 

[nebraskasparks]

I've been taking my time with the new tractor to see how it performs. I had 2 sets of iron weights added to rear tires and have had something on the three point when doing heavy FEL work.

Yesterday...put the hay wagon on and went over to a neighbors to grab a bunch of horse apples for the garden compost heap. Unhooked the wagon and started using my favorite tool - anbo grapple - The load of moist manure along with the 860 lb grapple made the rear end of the L5740 very light...uncomfortably light. You could feel the rear end starting to slide bit by bit.

I will be adding fluid asap ...from what I've read...the windshield wiper fluid doesn't eat away at the wheel like the calcium chloride.

 

[RoyJackson]

Part of the problem too IMHO is some of these FELs are quite large for the weight of the tractor they are on. It's like a guy at a dance...when he is dancing with a slim little gal, he swings her about. When he dances with Big Bertha, he gets swung about. Say no to Big Bertha FELs!

Mace makes a really good point about smaller tractors' loader capacities. Lots of folks consider the 3005/790 tractor's "meager" lifting capacity, but the capacity (800 lbs, depending on the year and loader model) is well matched to the size and weight of the machine. Quite a few smaller, lighter tractors have more capacity...but are they as well balanced?

However, it's as much a matter of reviewing the tractor/loader manuals (even the tractors that have "Big Bertha" loaders), following the ballast requirements and using a modicum of common sense.
Heck, we just had a 3-4 page thread on the wisdom of rear ballasting (3PH)...although a majority went with the ballasting (which is a requirement, per the loader manuals), but a solid minority were against using ballast on the 3PH). Sorry, I don't recall the thread title, or I'd link it here.

However, even savvy tractor owners such as TBNers can be woefully negligent in safety...just look at the number of pictures in which the ROPS is folded during operation (I do....and my estimate is somewhere between 25-35 percent).

 

[Reg]

No disagreement with any of the above, but...
but, But, BUT, BUTT !!!

Browse through this forum anytime and count up the posts asking about "upgrading" FEL cylinders to the next diameter, or turning up the pressure relief valve, defeating the starter interlocks on neutral, clutch, PTO neutral, whatever.

My belief is that a LOT of owners RESENT the existing limitations and go out of their way to bust through or override them.

There are also some who want to walk beside their tractor with nobody in the seat, so they can pick things up by hand and chuck 'em in the bucket or trailer.
So how do I defeat the seat switch on model xyx ?

Hmmm, if the loader is up high ENOUGH it probably helps with rollover protection - once the rollover has happened (-:
Is this in the minds of folk carrying the load high enough to see UNDER it ?

 

[Reg]

I am a new tractor owner and very concerned with this problem. I wanted to ask some questions about tire loading? 1. Who is equiped to do it? 2. How much does it cost? 3. Are there any drawbacks?

RimGuard was ~$3 a gallon here in Mass a few years ago.
There is a ~$10 valve adapter that you can use and DIY - "siphon" (as in high school).
It HELPS to use 50 gallon drums and put them up HIGH in the loader (more "head") - but of course you have to watch out for that old stability issue (-:
Have the tire you're filling just off the ground - floor jack.

Only potential disadvantages might be;
1) a big MESS and money on the ground if you get a flat,
2) the fact that it is there and remains there - - vs wheel weights that you can remove, if your back can take it (-:
3) may_BE a false sense of security ? (-:
The tractor doesn't magically get STABLE, it just gets a little less UNstable.
Tractors are still high c of g vehicles on a narrow track and usually on uneven terrain.