Another Lubricant Question

Bigbear · Mar 14, 2005

My question is pretty close to (navychief) thread. My tractor should be due for oil change, tranny, front end, etc. After reading all the different lubes that are recommended, I call my dealer and he told me to use hydraulic fluid in everything except the engine. Does this sound right? Tractor is a 354 JEPE or (Fution Euro Leopard- on the manual). What are your thoughts. Thanks, BEAR
Picture here: Jepe Tractor - Click here

bluechip · Mar 14, 2005

I am guessing, and should probably refrain from trying to answer, but if the dealer said use hydraulic fluid for everthing, he would likely be recommending a "303" or Universal tractor fluid and the reason for that is that the transmission/differential oil is used for the hydraulics. Not sure I would agree on front diff.
Fotons are beginning to show up more now that importers understand that the import restriction was only on ones that looked like New Hollands.

Soundguy · Mar 14, 2005

Wow.. I know what you mean about guessing. I too would 'guess' that the dealers 'hyd fluid' comment was meant as 'UTF'. For what it's worth. many modern tractores that are 4wd use utf in the front final drives. Course I've seen ones that use gear oil too..

I can't imagine running plain hyd fluid in a final drive.. or diffy... I think that dealer should be a tad more specific.. is he really telling his customers to drop in aw46? etc... And is he willing/able to do lots of warranty work if lots of gearsets go out? ( Course.. the gears probably won't go out during warranty /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif... )

Soundguy

bmartin · Mar 14, 2005

HEY bear, I'm with you , I have a Farm Pro 2425 and I was going over some info I downloaded from Emerybuilt and they say"transmission/differential: use hydraulic tractor fluid". Makes you wonder what to use? But it makes scense to use a gear lube like 80/90.
confused!
Billy

Soundguy · Mar 14, 2005

( they say"transmission/differential: use hydraulic tractor fluid Makes you wonder what to use? )

Actually.. that's pretty telltale. The 'tractor' fluid part makes the big difference. UTF is universal tractor fluid.. also called transdraulic.. etc.

Sounds like that is exactly what was 'mentioned'.

Soundguy

bluechip · Mar 14, 2005

While the factory in China recommends 30 wt in the engine, trans and hydaulics of the Farm Pro tractors, I would suggest we have better choices here in USA. 15W40 (diesel) in engine, 80w90 in trans/rear and AW32 or R&O in hydraulics, Universal in the trans is OK, but it will be quieter with gear oil. be sure not to use a high sulfer oil, as there are some brass washers in the differential. GL-4 is the way to go.

Bigbear · Mar 15, 2005

Guess well see what happens with the (Universal Tractor Fluid) cause I had to use about 5 gal. of it last night to fill her back up. Digging a hole for a friend and developed a bad leak /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif (backhoe spool) and lost about 5 gal. I used the same kind of Universal fluid I use in my homemade log splitter. I will say, the little tractor does a good job of digging down to a point. At around 6 feet deep, it starts to whine about lifting a full load of that heavy gravel, sand, base dirt up out of the hole. Anyway, back to the subject, I will stay with the Universal, for now and see what happens. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CSH · Mar 15, 2005

Chip (or any other knowledgeable individual), should one assume that all GL-5 gear oils are bad for Jinma differentials? I noticed Supertech 80W90 GL-5 specifically states it is safe for copper and brass components.

Soundguy · Mar 15, 2005

I've seen at least two manufacturers claiming that they make a product that is yellow metal safe. If the supertech makes the claim.. I guess you are good to go. Lokks like I've heard of 3 now /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Soundguy

bluechip · Mar 15, 2005

That shoudl be OK, the brass is the concern. You want to avoid the real sulfur smelling oils, sometimes labled as EP or extreme pressure as it is the sulfur that attacks the brass. The oil we use is GL-4/GL-5 and is low sulfur. so it is not the GL number after all.

IBPALLETS · Mar 18, 2005

I just got my Emerybuilt [Jinma284 w/FEL] and manual says engine 15/40 deisel oil and all other [diffs and trans] Hydraulic fluid. Called dealer and stated Multitrac fluid [coastal] is great . I was currently using that in my old Kubota so I will continue.

greg_g · Mar 18, 2005

( l and all other [diffs and trans] Hydraulic fluid. Called dealer and stated Multitrac fluid [coastal] is great )

Strongly disagree. And I'd be real interested in seeing that manual myself. I won't pretend to speak for a Kubota, but in a JM284 - EmeryBilt or whatever - hydraulic fluid for the hydraulics and steering, GEAR OIL for the transmission and differentials.

//greg//

Bigbear · Mar 19, 2005

I found the lubricant spec, (such as they are) in the Jepe (Futian Euro Leopard) book. I would guess my dealer told me correct. Here is a picture of the scanned page in the book.
http://photos.imageevent.com/paintballpictures/tractor/websize/Futian%20Leopard%20Oil.JPG

greg_g · Mar 19, 2005

( I found the lubricant spec, (such as they are) in the Jepe (Futian Euro Leopard) book. I would guess my dealer told me correct. Here is a picture of the scanned page in the book.
http://photos.imageevent.com/paintballpictures/tractor/websize/Futian%20Leopard%20Oil.JPG )

Yup. What Futian is calling "dual purpose" corresponds with the UTF we're talking about, a hydraulic fluid/gear oil hybrid product. The N100D corresponds to it's containing AW100 hydraulic oil, the N68 to AW68. Look for those numbers on the container label before buying.

Jinmas however, aren't engineered for UTF. As I said - for the benefit of IBPALLETS - it's hydraulic fluid for the hydraulics/steering and gear oil for the transmissions/differentials.

//greg//

Soundguy · Mar 20, 2005

I've got a question. If (since) UTF is designed as a gear lubricant ( final drives.. etc... ) why won't it work in the rear end of a jinma? Same question for the tranny.. especially since I see some many questions about the issue of the creeper gear not getting lube with thick gear oil..e tc.

Same for the power steering? just about every other 'modern' tractor I've seen with power steering either recomend their labeld brand of utf for the PS.. or it shares a commpn sump with some other item, again.. using utf.. etc.

Chinese pumps not up to pumping anything thicker than water? Or is there other restrictions that the oil weght is super critical about?

Soundguy

Jinma354 · Mar 20, 2005

I run 303 in the transmission and rear end in my 354. I've had it in there for a couple of years and going on 300 hours. Hope its not doing damage I can't see? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I shorted the 303 a couple of quarts and added two Lucas. Lots of the old timers that have been around Chinese tractors for years say 303 is what to use. I've wondered a few times if I should drain the 303 and run 80w 90 GL-4 but never have. It shifts too smooth with the 303 in extreme cold. I do run gear oil in the front end.

greg_g · Mar 20, 2005

( I've got a question.)
several, as it turns out.

IMPORTANT: BIGBEAR's question that started this thread concerned his 354 JEPE. You've managed to turn it into a Jinma thing, and not all Chinese tractors are Jinma clones. So it's important to note that my responses to you are Jinma-specific and are unrelated to BigBear's original 354 JEPE question, or to Chinese tractors in general.

( If (since) UTF is designed as a gear lubricant ( final drives.. etc... ) why won't it work in the rear end of a jinma? )
I don't recall anybody saying it wouldn't. What HAS been said repeatedly is that "gear oil is for gears", and that "UTF has a gear oil component". But I still recommend non-foaming 80W90 for Jinma transmissions and differentials.

( Same question for the tranny.. especially since I see some many questions about the issue of the creeper gear not getting lube with thick gear oil..e tc.)
The dry creeper issue is one of contamination, not of lubricant choice. It's relative to the dirty 30W that's apparently put in by Jinma for storage and transit before sale, and is one of the prime reasons the kerosene flush is recommended before putting these small Jinmas to work.

( Same for the power steering? just about every other 'modern' tractor I've seen with power steering either recomend their labeld brand of utf for the PS.. or it shares a commpn sump with some other item, again.. using utf.. etc.)
See, there you go again Chris. If you actually owned one of these things, you wouldn't come up with all this second guessing. The smaller Jinmas employ only one pump - in a closed loop configuration. Whatever fluid you pour into the hydraulic reservior is used for everything hydraulic on these units.

( Chinese pumps not up to pumping anything thicker than water? Or is there other restrictions that the oil weght is super critical about?)
Again, it's not the pump - it's the cheap hydraulic suction filter - something you'd already have learned, if you owned one in cold country.

//greg//

greg_g · Mar 20, 2005

( I shorted the 303 a couple of quarts and added two Lucas. )
If the Lucas has been in there the whole 300 hours, you've probably been running close to a 80W90 equivalent anyway.

( Lots of the old timers that have been around Chinese tractors for years say 303 is what to use. )
I wonder if those old-timers weren't thinking JAPANESE, rather than Chinese? Because UTF is very commonly specified for tractors of Japanese origin.

( I've wondered a few times if I should drain the 303 and run 80w 90 GL-4 but never have. It shifts too smooth with the 303 in extreme cold. I do run gear oil in the front end. )
Assuming you're using 80W90 up front, I recommend a field viscosity test. On a COLD day, loosen both fill plugs and compare the dipsticks side by side. If the Lucas has stabilized the 303 so it doesn't drip any faster than the gear oil, leave it as is - Lucas is too expensive to throw away without justification. But if the Lucas-stabilized oil still drips faster than that from the front diff - change the 303 oil out for a non-foaming 80W90.

//greg//