another CK25 won't start

keith mcc · Jun 2, 2012

First issue has been going off and on for a while -- would start and run a few seconds and shut down -- restart and run. this last week I was mowing and tractor shut down while running at mowing rpm. Restart and go -- ran about 10 minutes and shut down again -- restart and running again this time when it started shutting down I bumped the ignition switch and it kept running -- OK so I stopped took the switch apart and cleaned the ring and contact posts -- put it back together and it started and ran fine -- worked for about 2 hours and stopped to talk to a neighbor -- shut it down with the key -- will not restart --- engine turns over fine, but no smoke from the exhaust.
So time to research -- from reading on here I have tried to check the following:1/ cleaned ignition switch as mentioned above. 2/Fuel shut off solenoid clicks (can feel it) 3/ charged battery and cleaned all connections including ground to frame 4/checked for fuel at the pick up pump -- fuel at both sides 5/ checked for fuel after filter -- no fuel -- does this mean the filter is clogged or is this just because there is no pressure from pick up pump? (filter only has about 25 hrs on it)

Any suggestions would be appreciated

VictorW · Jun 2, 2012

You said you have fuel before and after the pick up pump. So it would seem that fuel is getting from the tank to the pick up pump. I would disconnect the line before the pick up pump and make sure the fuel flows free and nothing is clogged in the tank. The pick up pump seems to be apparently working with fuel after the pump. This may just be gravity feed from the tank though. The pick up pump should be putting out some pressure. @ 4-5 lbs. to push it through the filter. If you disconnect the line after the pick up pump, put your finger over the end of the hose lightly, and then crank the engine, you should get it to spray out of the hose from under your finger. If it's good until there, then the fuel goes to and hopefully through the filter. You have a valve at the top of the filter with three settings of off, air, and on. Make sure it's set to on. Being that it does run when once started, it doesn't seem like the rack is bad. You mentioned that when you bumped and also cleaned the ignition switch, that it ran for a while. The switch may have an intermittent problem which would trigger the fuel cut off solenoid without you knowing it. These switches have been known to cause many problems that can be intermittent and drive you crazy. If you think it's electrical/switch problems, also check the wire harness plugs under the right floor board. Some connectors have corroded causing problems. My CK30hst started to have odd starting problems which seemed to be fuel related and after changing the switch, it starts as it should.

JoelD · Jun 2, 2012

sounds like solenoid, seems like only good reason. As stated test for fuel flow up to it.

Joel

VictorW · Jun 3, 2012

If the fuel problem seems to be the solenoid not activating properly by not getting power as needed possibly due to the ignition switch, Michigan Iron had previously posted that in earlier model years the solenoid is in power off for the run position. When the ignition switch was turned off, a timer activated and powered the solenoid for I believe 5-6 seconds after the ignition switch was turned off to cut the fuel flow and shut down the engine. The solenoid then returned to the run position for the next start opening the fuel. This is how mine is on a 2004. Kioti then changed the operation of the solenoid so that it needed power, was activated, to open the fuel flow and when the power was off, the soleniod would close the fuel flow. Sorry I don't remember the year change but I thought it was around 2007-2008. If yours happens to be the power on to run setup, a faulty ignition switch could power off the solenoid shutting down the fuel flow.

keith mcc · Jun 4, 2012

Victor and Joel

I appreciate your responses and as this thing started out, I was certain I had an electrical issue, because of the henky way the switch acted. After talking to the nearest dealer's tech this morning - his top two options were the ignition switch or wiring harness causing a malfunction of the shut off solenoid -- or the injection pump fuel rack stuck closed. Since I could feel the click of the shut off solenoid when the switch was activated -- seemed like it was working, but I was sure hoping that it was not staying pulled in (appears that plunger is out with no power, pulls in under power) I pulled the shut off solenoid and grounded back to the frame and flip the switch, plunger pulls in and stays as long as I maintain the ground. Bout now I am feeling pretty sick, cause I know that the ip won't be cheap and is probably beyond my pay grade to rebuild the thing, but off comes the side plate and if I am checking the correct part -- a "post" coming thru the frame of pump behind a slotted lever -- if I understood the tech correctly the post is part of the fuel rack and should slide freely back and forth. No such luck for me, this thing is sitting tight in one spot and would not move either direction even after a nudge with a screwdriver. Now I for sure have that rolling in the stomach. So if I did something wrong in this check please correct me. If what i think has happened - fuel pump failure -- does anyone know if Kioti will be of any help to me? Tractor was purchased in 2006 and only has 221 hours so you can see it has not been heavily used, serial number is E70100404

ritcheyvs · Jun 5, 2012

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Sorry.

Here's an earlier post w/ pics of a failed pump and discussion:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/225273-injector-pump-failure.html

Another post reported he just rotated the gears 180 degrees and reassembled (no damage to his rack teeth) so the damaged gear teeth did not engage the rack and it ran OK after that.

The individual gear/plunger sets in the IP are matched sets and need to be kept together.

YOTI · Jun 6, 2012

Hey Keith don't get to down in the mouth I just went through the same thing and it wasn't that difficult of a fix, just took some time and patience. Thanks to all the guys sharing on here I was able to dianose the issue and do the repairs. The link that ritcheyvs posted was a great help with the repair since it shows all the internal components and gave me a good picture of what I was looking for and what I would see as I disassembled the IP. lexgs posted a good narative on the particulars of re-assembly in post #14 in the following link.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/141887-ck-25-gear-injector-pump.html

The only trouble I had was getting the fuel rack forward in order to clear the housing it sits in, it had failed in the stop position and was all the way to the rear. I ended up removing the idle adjusting bolt and used a punch and hammer to "lightly" tap on the fuel rack, I just had to move it enough to clear the sides. What I found was a broken tooth on one gear that had jammed up the works, after I cleared that everything worked fine.
The nearest dealer to me said that Kioti is paying for the parts but the owner has to pay for labor and transportation costs to have this fixed for what it's worth. Good luck.

MotorSeven · Jun 6, 2012

Wait a min...Keith clearly said he was having ignition switch issues before this happened. First thing I would do is replace the ignition switch.

I need to do the same on my '40 as it is starting do act funny at times.

ritcheyvs · Jun 6, 2012

MotorSeven said:
Wait a min...Keith clearly said he was having ignition switch issues before this happened. First thing I would do is replace the ignition switch.

These ignition switches ARE a known issue, but Keith said the fuel rack is jammed and won't move. I've not been inside one of these but it's my understanding that the rack should move with little effort once free of the governor linkages.

Still a bad switch could be partly responsible; if a bad switch repeatedly caused the shutoff relay to push the rack violently to the off position from a high power setting, that might damage the gears.

VictorW · Jun 6, 2012

MotorSeven said:
Wait a min...Keith clearly said he was having ignition switch issues before this happened. First thing I would do is replace the ignition switch.

I need to do the same on my '40 as it is starting do act funny at times.

He started off thinking it was the ignition switch but after talking to a dealer and checking his IP, he believes that his rack is stuck. I too questioned when he said it would run fine once started.