An EV??????`

[Hay Dude]

I don’t hate solar power. I utilize it to a small degree myself. I would love to have an Electric Ram 5500 WHEN it proves viable and outperforms the current Cummins powered version.

I DON’T appreciate gov____ment mandates for what propulsion system I have to use. I DON’T like the loss of the American energy system that powers this once great nation and probably will once again. I do NOT like handing the keys of global dominance to China by having to import millions of their tin can EV’s just because they are cheap to purchase.
My eyes ARE wide open in the environmental rape to the planet from mining lithium and other metals and the unacceptable recycling of the batteries & metals.

 

[sunandsand]

Correct me I’m wrong, but I heard that some states are considering a road tax on EV’s since most states depend on part of the sales gas price that goes to upkeep of the roads. It would be imposed on how many miles the EV has driven and then taxed on that amount of miles. Also I read where most EV’s weigh considerably more due to the weight of the batteries and these cars eat tires like candy.

True and true, with caveats. States do depend on gas taxes for road maintenance, but taxing by weight vs. (guesstimated) road damage isn't equitable. Tractor-trailers weigh a lot more than cars (gas or electric) and do exponentially more damage to roads than cars, but are not taxed accordingly.

I am not in favor of raising road taxes for big trucks, even though they "cost" the infrastructure more. Always remember that taxes are like crack cocaine for governments - there is NEVER enough, even all the money in the world isn't enough for them. Part of the solution might be to build stronger roads, part of the solution might be to reduce the weight footprint of large trucks by using wider tires, part of the solution could be sending more trailers by rail instead of over the road trucking. This is already being done, get stuck at a railroad crossing and count the UPS and Amazon trailers on articulated (five-in-one) flatcars. This gets them off the road almost en-tirely (no pun intended), requiring a road tractor for only the last few miles from the railroad yard to the destination.

Electric cars do seem to use tires quickly. Part of it is the cars tend to be heavier than equivalent gas cars, part of it is the "Whee!" factor from the increased acceleration of electric cars compared to gas cars (although I can eat a lot of tires in a hurry on my CLK Mercedes if I crank it on!) and part of it is the tire companies haven't yet figured out how to make low rolling resistance tires that last a longer time. Weight alone doesn't kill tires, there are plenty of pickup trucks and vans that weigh as much as an electric car and they get decent tire life anyway.

Any new technology goes through several stages. First are the visionaries, the technology barely works, and the visionaries are often seen as nut cases. (Dip your toes into the pool.) Then you get to the early adopters. As the technology gets better, more people are willing to try it out. (Wade into the shallow end.) Then you get the start of market acceptance, the tech is better and doesn't turn heads any more - people see electric cars and don't even remark on them. I think this is where the electric car market is now, the start of general market acceptance. Finally, the tech becomes mass market, unexceptional, everyone has one, they work quite well, the automotive equivalent of a microwave or a toaster and about as interesting. Big yawn.

Now that I've caused enough trouble here ;-) I'd like to make one comment on electricity. If I fill my back yard with solar cells and make more electricity than I can use, it is ILLEGAL for me to sell my surplus to my neighbors, it has to be sold to the power company (FPL). I see no particular difference here between saying if I grow more tomatoes than I want to eat, I can't sell them at the farmer's market, I HAVE to sell them to Publix or some grocery store. (Although it is probably hard to get accidentally electrocuted by tomatoes, fortunately we have a government that is genuinely concerned with our well-being and will protect us from all such risks. Sarcasm/Off)

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida

 

[ultrarunner]

No extension cord with a submeter work around?

 

[JurassicJet]

A part of the "myth" that EVs eat tires may be due to the Tesla X. That particular car uses different sizes of tires for the front and rear, so it is impossible to rotate as would "normally" be done. My buddy has a Tesla X and is lucky to get 25k out of his tires. So, in that case an EV does eat tires, but not because it is an EV but rather it is due to the inability to correctly rotate the tires. Stupid in my opinion.
I will have to say I would be a big fan of having an EV if I lived in a city. They definitely have their place. I do see one in my future, but not yet.

Sure, there is potential for environmental harm from lithium mines. But it's not like petroleum has been good for our planet. Just consider the Deepwater Horizon disaster, which dumped 4.9 million barrels (700,000 tons) of oil into the Gulf. That is, but one disaster, and that doesn't even take into account the carbon being pumped into the atmosphere every day, Shell knew back in the mid-'70s that petroleum would cause irreparable harm to our planet, but hey, they wanted to make money, so who cares.

 

[5030]

I’m more respectful of others than that.

Sadly today, most people are not.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

States do depend on gas taxes for road maintenance, but taxing by weight vs. (guesstimated) road damage isn't equitable. Tractor-trailers weigh a lot more than cars (gas or electric) and do exponentially more damage to roads than cars, but are not taxed accordingly.

You could've fooled me.

When I had my RV setup (a Pete 359 tractor and a dry van converted to a toy hauler) registered in California it cost me over $1,600 per year just for registration on the Pete.

Thankfully I didn't have to pay IFTA fees and such, but trust me, I paid dearly for the 30,000 lbs. my setup normally weighed in at.

When pulling doubles going to New Orleans in '05 with supplies I had to up the weight limit to 70K, and that was not cheap by any means.

 

[5030]

People who 'seem' to know all about big trucks and highway use taxes in reality don't know ****te from applebutter.

 

[sunandsand]

Fire risk: Millions of recalled Hyundai and Kia vehicles with a dangerous defect remain on the road

Summary: 3,400,000 Hyundai and Kia cars from 2010 through 2017 have a recall because they might catch fire. Owners are advised to park outside and away from other cars. Recall *might* be completed in a year or two. Parking a Kia outside risks getting it stolen (USB stick plus screwdriver trick), parking it in your garage risks burning your house down.

Kia says OK to drive anyway (sounds like Boeing . . . ), they say if you smell smoke and see warning lights on the dash, even though your car is on fire going 80 mph on the Interstate in heavy traffic during rush hour, you will have enough time to pull over and safely abandon ship, so hey, no problem, right ;-)

Recall is because brake fluid leaks onto an ABS module and ignites, the "fix" is supposed to be a fuse and fuse holder, no parts available "yet". I'm not sure how a fuse is supposed to fix a fluid leak, but whatever, they built the car, not me.

They've also had 13 million cars previously recalled because of the ongoing possibility of engine fires.

Sheesh.

I'm also going to check with Ultrarunner on his extension cord/submeter suggestion - what gauge wire do you advise?

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida

 

[5030]

Not an issue here because I'd never even consider buying some rice-a-roni car in the first place.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Recall is because brake fluid leaks onto an ABS module and ignites, the "fix" is supposed to be a fuse and fuse holder, no parts available "yet". I'm not sure how a fuse is supposed to fix a fluid leak, but whatever, they built the car, not me.

If unfortunate enough to own one, I would put aluminum foil or something over the ABS module. Done.

Until I can get rid of the damn thing.

 

[ultrarunner]

Fire risk: Millions of recalled Hyundai and Kia vehicles with a dangerous defect remain on the road

Summary: 3,400,000 Hyundai and Kia cars from 2010 through 2017 have a recall because they might catch fire. Owners are advised to park outside and away from other cars. Recall *might* be completed in a year or two. Parking a Kia outside risks getting it stolen (USB stick plus screwdriver trick), parking it in your garage risks burning your house down.

Kia says OK to drive anyway (sounds like Boeing . . . ), they say if you smell smoke and see warning lights on the dash, even though your car is on fire going 80 mph on the Interstate in heavy traffic during rush hour, you will have enough time to pull over and safely abandon ship, so hey, no problem, right ;-)

Recall is because brake fluid leaks onto an ABS module and ignites, the "fix" is supposed to be a fuse and fuse holder, no parts available "yet". I'm not sure how a fuse is supposed to fix a fluid leak, but whatever, they built the car, not me.

They've also had 13 million cars previously recalled because of the ongoing possibility of engine fires.

Sheesh.

I'm also going to check with Ultrarunner on his extension cord/submeter suggestion - what gauge wire do you advise?

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida

I like 10 gauge contractor grade.

During the numerous planned power shutdowns in the name of fire safety I got good in deploying a spider web of cords from my trusty Honda EM5000 to keep refrigerator/freezer in 4 homes plugged in.

 

[sunandsand]

Interesting discussion . . . and I would never presume to tell anyone what kind of car or truck to buy. Not my decision.

I wouldn't want a Hyundai/Kia either, but there is a distinct chance I might find myself parked next to one at the mall, and I'd be really annoyed if it went up in smoke and toasted my car at the same time. Also, if enough of them burn down houses, my homeowner's insurance will go up because of increased risk.

Originally the discussion was about car fires, and it seems like ICE cars can burn just as readily as EVs.

Regarding weight vs. road tax, my beater (Honda Accord) weighs 3,000 +/- lbs and pays $65/yr for tags. A fully loaded semi weighs 80,000 lbs (thanks Wikipedia) which is 26 times as much, so if license plate fees are proportional to vehicle weight, the semi's tags should cost 26 times $65, or about $1,700/yr, which number seems to be in line with 5030 and Too Many Kubotas' comments.

Undaunted, the IHS (Institute for Highway Safety) states that a fully loaded semi does 10,000 times the damage to a road than an average car. I have no idea where they got that number (other than pulled it out of thin air or perhaps someplace else), but as Goebbels said, a lie repeated 100 times becomes the truth.

If we accept that number (why?) and base tag fees on anticipated road damage, the registration for a semi should be 10,000 times my $65, or $650,000 a year - a total absurdity.

I happen to like apple butter, the other substance previously mentioned is firmly under the purview of the DMV. Maybe we shouldn't be giving them any ideas . . .

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida

 

[Too many Kubotas]

If we accept that number (why?) and base tag fees on anticipated road damage, the registration for a semi should be 10,000 times my $65, or $650,000 a year - a total absurdity.

Absurd indeed, since very few drive a tractor trailer just for for fun. Instead, they keep our economy and life as we know it possible by transporting goods.

Realistically, people should pay more for just going to the mall or the movies since that doesn't contribute anywhere near as much to the economy.

 

[Jstpssng]

Absurd indeed, since very few drive a tractor trailer just for for fun. Instead, they keep our economy and life as we know it possible by transporting goods.

Realistically, people should pay more for just going to the mall or the movies since that doesn't contribute anywhere near as much to the economy.

They also pay a fair amount of road taxes every time they buy fuel, just as the rest of us do. At 5mpg though, they are buying a lot more.

 

[TimberFarm]

I make myself more aware now not to park next to or very close to an EV. Don’t want my nice truck to go down on flames. I told my family and close friends that if I start talking about getting an EV to have me committed and medicated.

I try to make sure not to park my nice truck next to any Ford trucks given their reputation for spontaneous combustion.

 

[Yander]

Buy yourself an EV…
Small mindedness is a terrible disease.

Not nearly as bad as narcissism or elitism.

 

[shooterdon]

Fuel taxes have been a relatively fair way to fund road maintenance. Heavier vehicles cause more damage and use more fuel. a person that drive 8k miles a year pays less than someone driving 25k. A fair tax for EVs is needed as they should fund the roads, but what is fair?

Is charging an EV user who puts on 8k a year $200 fair if another EV user who does 25k miles pays the same?

I do not see weight as an equitable way. Does a 3500 lb vehicle that is used for 25k miles do 1/2 the damage of a 7000 lb vehicle used for 8k mikes?

 

[Jstpssng]

Fuel taxes have been a relatively fair way to fund road maintenance. Heavier vehicles cause more damage and use more fuel. a person that drive 8k miles a year pays less than someone driving 25k. A fair tax for EVs is needed as they should fund the roads, but what is fair?

Is charging an EV user who puts on 8k a year $200 fair if another EV user who does 25k miles pays the same?

I do not see weight as an equitable way. Does a 3500 lb vehicle that is used for 25k miles do 1/2 the damage of a 7000 lb vehicle used for 8k mikes?

There has been talk of inplementing a mileage fee. One suggestion is to put a GPS in every vehicle.

 

[tradosaurus]

There has been talk of implementing a mileage fee. One suggestion is to put a GPS in every vehicle.

I think it would be easier to subtract your mileage from last years registration from your current mileage and multiply by fee imposed by the state. That would be fair. The state of Texas imposing an arbitrary fee of $200 on my EV each year PLUS the registration fee of $75 is asinine.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep… it keeps getting floated with possible true up at smog inspection.

Not sure how that would work with the collector cars and they might be exempt?

My 1905 Oldsmobile has 20 miles over 5 years… no odometer or speedometer or electrical system so maybe exempt?