am I hurting my tractor?

[barneyZ]

Hi all.
I'm using my bx2350 to install a sprinkler system. I am using a subsoiler to 'plow' ditches for the pipes. this time of year, the soil is about 2" of dust over very hardpack. In order to plow through without spinning the tires, I am putting the tractor in high range. when I hit a particularly hard spot, the tractor comes to a complete stop, bogging down the engine. I then back up a few feet and take a run at it. usually, one or two hits will break the section loose. this usually happens every 5 or 10 feet. with probably 500' of pipe to lay, I'm worried that this is abusing the tractor.

is this continuous heavy load on the tractor a bad thing? I'm most concerned about either the engine or hydraulics.

thanks in advance,
Barney

 

[n8wrl]

How fast are you going and how fast does it stop? Is it snap-your-head fast? My first thought would be bending stuff - the implement, maybe the lift arms. Doesn't sound like much fun.

-Brian

 

[Spiveyman]

Couldn't you accomplish the same thing in a lower gear, hit the clutch when you start to spin, back up and hit 'er again? That might help avoid the stress on the tractor bogging down in a higher gear.

 

[Soundguy]

IMHO.. I wouldn't use a high range to plow.. I'd use a low range..

soundguy

 

[3RRL]

There's a fine line between squeezing every once of use out of your tractor and abuse. Where is that line? Obviously when you start breaking stuff. Just before that happens, there's excessive wear which, although not good, is part of the deal. It's not a baby so I work mine to extremes. I figure if stuff wears or breaks, I'll fix it. But I will not baby my tractor.

It is probably worse to bog the engine than anything else. That's where a bunch of money is if repair is needed there. So use lower gears for sure. Put the stress where it can be taken best.

Another way of looking at it is using a tool or your tractor for what it's designed to do. If your stressing it by using it for what it's not designed, that might be abuse. Otherwise,... it's a tool. Use it within the design limits, but to the max of that limit. IMO, Nothing lasts forever. At least that's the way I look at using my tools. Repairs or buying new when it's time is also part of the deal, right?

I might get a lot of flack for what I said, and others may disagree, but that's what I do.

 

[accordionman]

SIR,
your bx is not exactly the perfect machine for this operation.
have you tried taking small bites? try making several passes
with the subsoiler, going deeper each time, but in low range,
and see if this works.
good luck.
accordionman
wlbrown

 

[VAChesterfield]

Ouch!

I have used my NH TC30 for much the same purpose, except I was installing an underground dog fence and using a middle buster. However, my machine had the guts to steadily pull the middle buster through the ground, even tho' like you, my ground was just shy of being natural concrete.

Since I do not own nor have I operated a BX2350 I cannot offer you conclusive advice, but .... I'd say you are asking too much from your machine and you'll pay the price sooner of later.

If you are determined to bury your pipe using your machine I suggest you either take the one bite at a time advice of accordionman or try a middle buster instead of the subsoiler, or even better, the middle buster one bite at a time.

 

[jbrumberg]

Barney:

Welcome to TBM ! As 3RRL points out there is a fine line between tool use and abuse. It is usually considered to be abuse after things start to break . I agree with all the cautionary posts and suggest that you try the suggestions of accordianman and VAChesterfield. Use your tractor safely and well and keep the posts coming- Jay

 

[Grrrr]

I'd try taking shallower bites and make several passes. It is a pretty bad idea to really bog the engine down and I expect you would break something eventually ramming the subsoiler around.

 

[VABlue]

Agree with Grrr... Put the HST in low and raise up the soiler a little for a smaller bite. You'll get a smoother trench and won't be bogging the engine, either. You should probably have the RPMs up around 2K, also...

The 2350 will do the job, but you need to be smart about it and work a little slower through the concreted clay. My 2305 is the same way.

 

[shaley]

I guess by using the high gear you get the momentum of the machine working for you. I'd add 1000 lbs of weight and use the low range. Do you have a FEL on it? 4WD? That sudden lugg to the engine squeezes the oil from in between the connecting rods and the crank and causes micro galling of the metal. You are shock loading the crank itself also.

 

[257NH]

You might also be able to lessen the drag by changing the attack angle of your implement by adjusting the toplink.
Brian

 

[dieselsmoke1]

As others have sugested, multipass in low range. Nothing good can come of straining the engine and drive train to a dead stop.

 

[SkunkWerX]

As has been stated:

1. Use Low Range, and set engine RPMs at about 3,000 or so.

2. Don't go as deep, even if it means 3 or 4 passes.

3. Change the angle of the subsoiler so that it tends to pull up on stones and hardpack.

4. If you feel slippage or engine bogging, lift the subsoiler to the point you keep your forward momentum and/or restore your traction. This may mean lifting only an inch, or lifting all the way up.

5. Dig in both directions, sometimes a stubborn stone can't be dislodged going in direction "A" , but in direction "B" it pops easily. So try a back n forth approach when doing multi-passes.

Being a BX2350 owner I'l tell you I wouldn't conciously choose to do that to my machine, especially on a repeated basis.

I do agree with 3RRL, my tractor is a tool, ultimately. However, you won't find me wailing away with a 4 oz. tack hammer to drive a 16 penny nail.
I think your BX2350 can handle the task you are asking of it, but a little more strategy and finesse may yield the desired results without the chance of excessive strain or daamge that may result from the continuous pounding.

 

[barneyZ]

Wow, a legion of tractor users ready to help out. Thanks everyone for the great suggestions. I guess I knew the answer before I asked the question, just needed confirmation.
I'll go back to low gear and adjust when the tires spin instead of my sledgehammer approach.
Ideally, a trencher or vibrating pipe puller would be the right tool. I'm still building my arsenal of attachments though. I'm trying to use what I have available.
Thanks again,
Barney

 

[SkunkWerX]

I'm still building my arsenal of attachments though. I'm trying to use what I have available.
Thanks again,
Barney

Barney, that right there, is darn near all of us.
We use what we have on hand, and try to use it in such a way it accomplishes our task safely.

I am one of the most impatient people you will ever meet, I want eveything done yesterday, but, over my lifetime, I have learned that askling questions and thinking about it, as you did, will save us time and money in the end.

Let us know how it goes?

Good LUCK!

 

[Spiveyman]

I'll go back to low gear and adjust when the tires spin instead of my sledgehammer approach.
Ideally, a trencher or vibrating pipe puller would be the right tool. I'm still building my arsenal of attachments though. I'm trying to use what I have available.

Another tractor saved! This is kind of like the humane society for tractors! Good luck, and keep us posted.

4. If you feel slippage or engine bogging, lift the subsoiler to the point you keep your forward momentum and/or restore your traction. This may mean lifting only an inch, or lifting all the way up.

Since we've already diverted a potential disaster (the main point of the thread), can I ask a slightly off topic question related to #4 there? Is that basically what a tractor does for you when you are using the draft lever? I'm not familiar with the BX2350, I assume it doesn't have a draft control?

 

[john_bud]

Many great answers on what to do in order to avoid damage. No answers telling you what you "almost" broke.

My opinion is that you were working real hard to destroy the differential housing. Repeated shock loading will initiate cracks. Continued repeated shock loads will lengthen the cracks until you have an expensive leaking pile of parts.

jb

 

[patrick_g]

How's this for a bipolar answer?

I don't think he is driving along in high range working the tractor very hard. It sounds like he is using a higher range to build up speed/momentum to really hit the hard spot. I don't think this is particularly risky for the tranny and engine but it could hurt the 3PH, implement, or ...

It would be safer to go slower and engage the implement less aggressively and make multiple passes. If you can get your hands on (or fabricate) a more narrow blade for the implement you will be able to pull it easier but still break down through the hardpack. A subsoiler is superior for the task to a middle buster and since replacement blades for a subsoiler are fairly inexpensive I'd get another and modify one for breaking through a hard crust by making its frontal area much smaller.

Pat

 

[SPYDERLK]

Hi all.
I'm using my bx2350 to install a sprinkler system. I am using a subsoiler to 'plow' ditches for the pipes. this time of year, the soil is about 2" of dust over very hardpack. In order to plow through without spinning the tires, I am putting the tractor in high range. when I hit a particularly hard spot, the tractor comes to a complete stop, bogging down the engine. I then back up a few feet and take a run at it. usually, one or two hits will break the section loose. this usually happens every 5 or 10 feet. with probably 500' of pipe to lay, I'm worried that this is abusing the tractor.

is this continuous heavy load on the tractor a bad thing? I'm most concerned about either the engine or hydraulics.

thanks in advance,
Barney

No, this is not likelyto hurt the tractor. Your internal stresses are limited by the action of the relief valve for the HST. This prevents the energy of the spinning engine from being released too quickly as could happen with a gear tractor. Any true jerk you may experience is isolated to the tractor frame connection to the load. Tractors are pretty robust for pulling, but still beware of any situation that stops you instantly from speed. An instant stop produces tremendous forces that would break the frame of your tractor. For example, in your situation, if you were stopped by a large underground rock and then backed up and rammed it full tilt. With care taken to detect this type of situation you should be ok.
larry