am I getting the runaround?

[daugen]

My tnt has had a drooping right cylinder since I got it. Back several times to the dealer, under warranty, and
no solution, told they all do to some extent.

I don't get it. With a heavy mower on the back, the right side drops over three inches within a half hour.
How can that be considered within normal operating parameters? I can see overnight, but shouldn't you be able to set your
hydraulics at a certain point and have them stay there, perhaps for quite a while?

here's what the dealer wrote:

I called again the manufacturer of the lift link cylinder and confirmed
that there isn't a check valve of any type on this cylinder. The leakage you are experiencing
on that cylinder happens in the tractor valve. Kubota told me earlier that all remote valves
leak down over time, some a little faster that others.

There is a type of check/safety valve on the top link cylinder to allow breakaway under
too much force.

Ok, so how much time is "over time"? How much drop would you all put up with over what length
of time and consider it reasonable? This seems dysfunctional here, an attachment piston that will not hold its position.
Suggestions? many thanks

 

[DutchHenryBrown]

I do not notice any leak down when I am using my TNT but the right cylinder will drop after sitting 3 or 4 days. Sorry not much help good luck.

 

[KYDan]

This is not normal or acceptable. I would tell my dealer that.

 

[TripleR]

Mine also drops over time but not that fast, I am having the Shop Foreman check with Kubota on "allowable limits".

 

[brain55]

If this is on a remote set-up with quick disconnects and the top cylinder doesn't seem to be leaking down I would switch the connections. If the problem switches to the top cylinder it is in the valve section, if not then I'd say it was in the cylinder.

Brian

 

[Gator6x4]

My tnt has had a drooping right cylinder since I got it. Back several times to the dealer, under warranty, and
no solution, told they all do to some extent.

I don't get it. With a heavy mower on the back, the right side drops over three inches within a half hour.
How can that be considered within normal operating parameters? I can see overnight, but shouldn't you be able to set your
hydraulics at a certain point and have them stay there, perhaps for quite a while?

here's what the dealer wrote:

I called again the manufacturer of the lift link cylinder and confirmed
that there isn't a check valve of any type on this cylinder. The leakage you are experiencing
on that cylinder happens in the tractor valve. Kubota told me earlier that all remote valves
leak down over time, some a little faster that others.

There is a type of check/safety valve on the top link cylinder to allow breakaway under
too much force.

Ok, so how much time is "over time"? How much drop would you all put up with over what length
of time and consider it reasonable? This seems dysfunctional here, an attachment piston that will not hold its position.
Suggestions? many thanks

Welcome to the land of TNT. My first excursion into the TNT world was the same as yours. Then on the advise of an experienced hydraulics repair person I switched to a side link and top link with pilot valves.

Stays where put. Every-time I recommend pilot valves on a top or side link I get flamed with super charged flame throwers.

If you want the top and side links to stay, where set, call and talk to the people at Haytool about TNT cylinders with pilot valves for your tractor. Hydraulic top links, Top-N-Tilt, Side link cylinders

 

[daugen]

thanks guys. I will do the switch around and see if that helps, though it shouldn't...
And Gator, yeah, they are so proud of their anti creep valve they put it right up front.
Maybe where it belongs. Hmmmm.

Since I mostly mow, and only play with the box blade, this is not a critical issue for me.
Just hard to believe something should just flop out of position. Wondered if I should weld a chain and hook
somewhere to back up the cylinder.

I got the tractor back today, and the tnt will come off and sit on the box blade.
until I or some other dealer figure out how to make it work right without acting like a drawer pull.

 

[Gator6x4]

thanks guys. I will do the switch around and see if that helps, though it shouldn't...
And Gator, yeah, they are so proud of their anti creep valve they put it right up front.
Maybe where it belongs. Hmmmm.u

Since I mostly mow, and only play with the box blade, this is not a critical issue for me.
Just hard to believe something should just flop out of position. Wondered if I should weld a chain and hook
somewhere to back up the cylinder.

I got the tractor back today, and the tnt will come off and sit on the box blade.
until I or some other dealer figure out how to make it work right without acting like a drawer pull.

Good luck with another dealer. Top and Side links with pilot valves are the only correction I have found.

 

[DK35vince]

Welcome to the land of TNT. My first excursion into the TNT world was the same as yours. Then on the advise of an experienced hydraulics repair person I switched to a side link and top link with pilot valves.

Stays where put. Every-time I recommend pilot valves on a top or side link I get flamed with super charged flame throwers.

You sure won't get flamed by me for recommending check valves. I highly recommend them.
I tried top and tilt cylinders without the check valves and they never stayed where I put them. Constantly readjusting them because of leak down..
I switched to top and tilt cylinders with check valves 10 years ago and they never leak down. They stay where I put them.

 

[JeffTerry]

hydraulics
your dealer apparently does not do hydraulic work. your hyd's should not bleed down if it is new. I would say several years or multiple hours of working conditions possible that is will leak down.
internal hydraulic cylinders are like a piston in your vehicle, it wears over time. external cylinders either leak down by leaking externally or by passing the internal seal of the piston to the opposite side of the piston causing the stroke of the piston and rod not to extend fully. If you are connected to a hyd remote on your tractor and you are leaking down, possible the remote is defective or the valve is not seating properly.

 

[JeffTerry]

long story short, call your tractor rep/manufacture and make a complaint

 

[MHarryE]

My top and tilt both leak, speed dependent on load. Pilot operated checks needed jst like most people with experience with top and tilt have answered.

 

[daugen]

well, what I've learned here really clearly is the dealer sold me the wrong cylinders. But they are the "name brand"; wonder if that same company also offers units with check valves or if there is an add on solution that doesn't require buying new cylinders. This is very disappointing. Yes, I need to check my angles occasionally, and I understand that...gravity and load are doing everything possible to pull that piston down.

Well, from now on, let's suggest check valves to newbies folks. But first I'll swap the lines and see if I get lucky.
And for now, I have to take the cylinders off, replace them with the manual ones, and then put the big mower back on.
Now that's annoying. The dealer suggested that I only use it with a rear or box blade. Really. Ok.

 

[J_J]

As you probably know all cyl can bypass with some wear and a load on them.

Even a check valve will not prevent the bypassing.

A new cyl with check vale works great,

As they said, remote valves can leak but it is probably the cyl.

You can try needle valves in line with the cyl.

This is a pilot operated check valve.

Surplus Center - 1/2 NPT 16 GPM BRAND PC50C PILOT-OP CHECK VALVE

 

[johnnyvol]

I haven't installed a TNT yet, so this is probably a noob question. Are they leaking down under power also, or just when left overnight? I've had a few hydraulic operated implements over the years and can't recall any of them leaking down while under pressure (while the tractor was running), but they almost all seemed to leak slowly over time if not used. All I ever had to do to correct it was to fire up the tractor and wiggle the lever and everything would tighten up.

With all that said, a TNT might be different, hence my question. I want things to stay put while in operation but am not too concerned with how they act during idle time.

 

[daugen]

I want things to stay put while in operation but am not too concerned with how they act during idle time.

:thumbsup:
that sure works for me. But an inch drop in less than an hour is ridiculous. Might have been double that...

I guess I'll go to the dealer for a can of Instant Check Valve. Just pour it over both ends of the cylinder and it will fix me right up.
:confused3:

 

[J_J]

There really is no difference in the process of leaking down.

When a valve is in neutral, there is supposed to be a hyd lock.

Should a cyl move, then it is simply seal bypass.

With a valve in neutral, most times there is no pressure on the spools. However, should the last valve in a hyd system be activated up to the the relief pressure, then all spools upstream will have pressure on the spools, and could force some fluid past the spools.

So if it leaks down operating, then it might have some help.

Different hyd machinery have different leak down rates. I would assume that the more precise the spool is to the valve, it will have a leak down rate less than a less precision spool and valve assembly.

Of course the wear and tear on a spool valve assembly will add up over time.

You can see old machinery with hyd that will hold a load up for weeks it seems. Just good workmanship and precision parts.

You can also see hyd on new machinery descend with no help as you watch it.

 

[brain55]

There's a big difference in an inch an hour versus 3" in half an hour. An inch an hour while operating is quite reasonable in my opinion, 3" in half an hour would be totally unacceptable. So I'm not sure which it is now.

 

[oldnslo]

The PO check will reduce the drift problem. Downside of a PO check is it will also eliminate the option of having float capabilities.

 

[Gator6x4]

I haven't installed a TNT yet, so this is probably a noob question. Are they leaking down under power also, or just when left overnight? I've had a few hydraulic operated implements over the years and can't recall any of them leaking down while under pressure (while the tractor was running), but they almost all seemed to leak slowly over time if not used. All I ever had to do to correct it was to fire up the tractor and wiggle the lever and everything would tighten up.

With all that said, a TNT might be different, hence my question. I want things to stay put while in operation but am not too concerned with how they act during idle time.

They leak or drift down when in use or setting. You attach a rotary cutter or rear finish mower get the side to side level and the front to rear set. You use for a few minutes and the right side is scalping and the front controlled by the top link is also out of kilter. You stop, re-adjust and a few minutes later repeat the process.

Using a scrape or box blade in level mode, look back and the right side is cutting a trench. Using a tiller is really an experience. Hang a sixty gallon sprayer on the rear and spray one side at 28 inches and the other at 20.

My first experience with top and tilt was with Gannon Cylinders. Dealer replaced, Gannon said all cylinders leak or drift down. No more help. That is when the experienced hydraulic person advised to install cylinders with check valves. This was years ago. Cylinders still operate like they did when first installed.

Sure is nice, adjust one time and use all day.