Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments

   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments #1  

jigs_n_fixtures

Platinum Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2021
Messages
844
Location
Salmon, Idaho
Tractor
TYM T233
I want a grapple on the rock bucket for my tiny tractor. I can get the add on kit, and mount one up to my existing bucket with no real issues. Except I don’t have a third function going forward. The after market kit, with soft hoses, is about $800. The manufacturer‘s version with hard lines is about $1200.

So, I started wondering about running a grapple with an electric actuator. Most of them are far too undersized. However, I found an Electro-Hydraulic actuator on eBay, which consists of a double acting 12-Volt electric pump, (like is used on dump trailers), with about a 1-quart reservoir, directly coupled to a double acting hydraulic cylinder. Ten inch stroke, about 2400-pounds of force. I sent a message to the seller to find out what the rod and pin diameters are.

At $230 with free shipping, plus about another hundred for wiring, connectors, controls: This seems like it might be far less expensive than running a third hydraulic circuit forward. The loader control handle has three positions for switches built in. So, I could do a really clean installation Which would function as well or batter than the hydraulic forward.

Anyone seeing down sides I’m missing this approach?

Alternatively I could get one of the self contained pump and reservoir assemblies and mount it to the tractor body, and run the hydraulics forward. Still considerably less than buying third forward kit. Anyone see downsides to this approach?
 
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments #2  
I ran lines from an extra set of rear remotes to the loader cross bar. Works great.
 
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments #3  
I want a grapple on the rock bucket for my tiny tractor. I can get the add on kit, and mount one up to my existing bucket with no real issues. Except I don’t have a third function going forward. The after market kit, with soft hoses, is about $800. The manufacturer‘s version with hard lines is about $1200.

So, I started wondering about running a grapple with an electric actuator. Most of them are far too undersized. However, I found an Electro-Hydraulic actuator on eBay, which consists of a double acting 12-Volt electric pump, (like is used on dump trailers), with about a 1-quart reservoir, directly coupled to a double acting hydraulic cylinder. Ten inch stroke, about 2400-pounds of force. I sent a message to the seller to find out what the rod and pin diameters are.

At $230 with free shipping, plus about another hundred for wiring, connectors, controls: This seems like it might be far less expensive than running a third hydraulic circuit forward. The loader control handle has three positions for switches built in. So, I could do a really clean installation Which would function as well or batter than the hydraulic forward.

Anyone seeing down sides I’m missing this approach?

Alternatively I could get one of the self contained pump and reservoir assemblies and mount it to the tractor body, and run the hydraulics forward. Still considerably less than buying third forward kit. Anyone see downsides to this approach?

Are you fabricating a grapple? Most grapples come with the hydraulic cylinders to spec. If you are providing the cylinder then it would need to match the grapple (ie you want the grapple to be able to open wide enough and with the size of the claw still provide enough clamping force). One quart of fluid is not much to work with, it may heat up if used much...but grapples dont tend to be constantly opened and closed.
Can you link it?
 
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments #4  
I ran lines from an extra set of rear remotes to the loader cross bar. Works great.

This is a very common approach. Some folks are just fine with actuating the grapple claw from a remote lever beside the FEL control arm. Not bad if you can route the hoses nicely and dont need the remotes for anything else while the grapple is on.
 
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Are you fabricating a grapple? Most grapples come with the hydraulic cylinders to spec. If you are providing the cylinder then it would need to match the grapple (ie you want the grapple to be able to open wide enough and with the size of the claw still provide enough clamping force). One quart of fluid is not much to work with, it may heat up if used much...but grapples dont tend to be constantly opened and closed.
Can you link it?
Here is a link to the cylinder: 10" Hydraulic Linear Actuator Stroke 2300 lbs Max Lift Electric Motor 12V DC US | eBay

I bought a Titan “Add-A Grapple” 48"-60" Bolt-on Bucket Grapple Attachment

The grapple cylinder has a five inch stroke, and the electro-hydraulic one is a ten inch stroke. But, I think I can get around that by adding a couple of limit switches, which would kill the power to the pump, when the grapple is either fully open or closed.
 
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments #6  
I actually just installed one of those cylinders as a top link for the 3pt hitch on my tiny tractor.

I think these things would 'mostly' work fine for an electric grapple. Biggest downside is, it's fairly slow. Another thing to consider is, depending on how you used it you could possibly use your loader hydraulics to pry the grapple lid against the extended cylinder and have it be more susceptible to bending the cylinder rod if it's much thinner than the originally intended cylinder.

As far as limit switches, i wouldn't bother as long as there is something to mechanically stop the grapple movement. I doubt its exactly a 6.5" travel cylinder, that's probably just how much travel that cylinder as while hooked to that specific linkage/geometry. Ive put an amp clamp on the cylinder im using and it pulls 20 amps unloaded and only hits 22amps when it reaches travel limits and starts pumping open its pressure relief valve. You can put that through something like a winch solenoid or even a regular 20-30amp rated 6-terminal or 'motor reversing' switch. Just make sure whatever buttons are you using are momentary buttons that spring off whenever you're not pushing on them so you cant accidentally leave it on.
 
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Thanks. I’m waiting for information from the seller on what diameter the pin and cylindeer rod are. But will probably order one.

It just seams a lot more cost effective than adding the third forward.
 
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments #8  
I looked at them, too, when I was looking at the various third-function alternatives. I found info somewhere that showed that the electric ones will open and close really slow. Vigo337 confirmed that with his top link installation. That may not be the case with this one, but see if you can find more info about that. They are geared way down to increase the power from what you get from a fairly small electric motor.
If your tractor has a rear remote, that's probably the cheapest and simplest way to do it. Your total cost is just hoses and fittings. R1-06 3/8" SAE 100R1AT Hydraulic Hose is $1.68/foot right now at discounthydraulichose.com. Running from a rear remote up to the grapple is done a lot, based on what I've seen in many threads in this forum.
 
Last edited:
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments #9  
The solenoid valve for a 3rd function is under $200. Besides that you need hoses, wiring and a switch on the joystick, same as you'd need for this 12v thing. So it's not going to save you anything, and you'll get worse performance and more maintenance from it.

You don't need to use the manufacturer's 3rd function kit. There are threads on here of people rolling their own 3rd function. If you can weld up a couple brackets, run hoses and wiring, it's not hard.
 
   / Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments #10  
Thanks. I’m waiting for information from the seller on what diameter the pin and cylindeer rod are. But will probably order one.

It just seams a lot more cost effective than adding the third forward.
Looks like the "Free Load Speed" is 0.6 in/sec. If you are moving 6 inches, that is 10 seconds. Not terrible, but also not like the normal grapple cylinder either (it will be faster).

I cant find the cylinder diameter on the titan grapple, did you see it? Would be nice to compare.

The seller has the cylinder inner diameter:

Input Voltage:DC12V
Hydraulic Motor:300W;3000r/m
Max Push Load on Straight:10500N/2300LBS/1050KG
Free Load Speed:0.6 inch(15mm)/s
Stroke:10 inch / 250 mm
Retracted Length (mm)15 inch / 390mm
Extended Length (mm)25 inch / 640mm
Cylinder Inner Diameter:1.38 inch/35mm
The Thick of Telescopic Rod:0.7 inch/18mm
Operation Temperature:-26 ° C ~ 65 ° C
Protection Class:IP65
Material:Metal
 
 
Top