All,,,,,

PineRidge · Jul 24, 2005

I have my favorites here at the TBN site just like everyone else and I try to read the majority of their posts. On the other hand if a member doesn't appeal to me then it's just as easy to stay away from his posts altogether, that's a choice that we all have.

Basically what I am saying is we are all entitled to our own beliefs and opinions without pushing them down the throats of everyone else. You can make a point without disrespecting another member.

Think that more than a few of us here have completely forgotten that we are merely guests here, nothing more, and we don't pay the bills or keep the site running either. Yet it seems like a few go out of their way to make life miserable for the rest of us here at the site. These are the folks that say things like, "Buy a tractor like the one I bought, because there is none better." And if you do give your personal opinion or challenge a statement then you are immediately flamed with a nasty PM.

If those same members used some common sense and coupled it with a dose of netiquette we wouldn't have some long standing members leaving the fold, or others unwilling to post. For those of you that may be unaware that these problems exist I wanted to share a PM with you that came to me from a fairly new TBN member (his handle is not important). At the time this PM was sent to me this particular member had no more than 6 posts total yet he felt the need to pull my chain, and I wonder how many other members have received similar nasty or threatening PMs as well. I'm betting more than a few……

im getting ...... no, I am sick and tired of reading your meaningless b s when people are asking for help, is that how you become an elite member get a life for yourself or be more constructive, you sound like an old women or worse, some f n geek

johnday · Jul 24, 2005

As I'm typing, there has been 194 views of this thread. I hope at least some of the detractors have read what all of us are saying. There have times that, I, myself have not replied or posted due to the potential of a flame war. I thought it was the phase of the moon or something. Then I recieved a PM that mentioned the goings on, and it dawned on me the problem. Is there a solution? I would hope that maybe bringing this to the forefront, some posters may do a self exam, and cleanup their act. Could this be the dawning of the "ME" generation on this site? As far fetched as it may sound, maybe Muhammad could come up with a forum, that you have to have at least 500 posts before you can enter. [ Just a little humour /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif].

Thanks for voicing your opinions guys, there sure is a common thread here.

A member I've met in person a number of times, told me that most of the guys he's met on here are usually quite laid back and nice people. Hopefully the jerkwaters will fade away soon.
One can only hope.

I'd like to see this thread continue, and maybe get guys like Henro, cowboydoc, Docsknotinn, nad more of the oldtimers that rarley post anymore to come back. It seems like a lot them are fading away, and that's absolutely pathetic.

California · Jul 24, 2005

Wow. I'm sorry to see you experienced members feeling harassed. In the little corner of TBN that I follow (Yanmar, operation, and DIY shop topics) I'm not seeing this.

I tend to ignore obvious flame topics such as lubricants and brand comparisons so I suppose that's why I don't see the animosity you describe.

I've asked my share of newbie questions and nearly always found the replies helpful and informative. Now that I have answers to some of the basic questions I try to respond to other new owners of these orphan Yanmars who all seem to have the same questions that I did.

I assume my perspective is similar to those who first joined TBN to share information about their new Kubotas. From my perspective, that spirit of sharing continues.

Now if we had some kind of twit filter to ignore those who joined to push a political agenda, or to simply to run up their number of posts, TBN would be perfect.

Bird · Jul 24, 2005

While there's much truth to what's been posted in this thread, I'm gonna disagree just a little bit. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
1. We've got over 20k registered members and I believe (yep, my opinion) it would be impossible to get that many people together anywhere in the world without having some disagreements, arguments, and hard feelings at times.
2. Perhaps some of our more senior and knowledgeable people have dropped out, or at least participated less frequently because of arguments; however, I know that some of them (including some whose knowledge and expertise I surely miss) are rarely, if ever, heard from anymore, not because of what anyone has posted, but because they simply do not have the time anymore to participate as they once did. Life situations change, and we sometimes have to change with them.
3. Everyone should read the FAQ and the forum rules listed there and try to abide by them. Again, in my opinion, those rules are nothing more than common sense and courtesy. Everyone should also read the Terms of Service.
4. If you read a post that you think is inappropriate, you should click on the "Notify Moderator" button at the bottom of that post. That actually sends an e-mail to all the moderators that we should look at that post.
5. Sometimes it's obvious that a posted message is a violation of the rules or terms of service, but other times it's a judgement matter as to whether a post has crossed the line and should be edited or removed. When we do have to remove or edit a post, we may get PMs thanking us for doing so, and we may get other PMs criticizing us for doing so. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
6. I'm inclined to think that no one can satisfy everyone else all the time. So if someone disagrees with me, whether it's something I've done as a moderator, or whether it's to disagree with something I've posted, I don't consider that a problem. I might still disagree, or I might have learned something from the other person.
7. I used to read all the posts, and I think quite a number of others, including at least some of the moderators, also did that, but partially because of the sheer volume of posts and partially because of other matters occupying more of my time, I can no longer read all of them every day. I suspect that's true of the other moderators as well.
8. I simply do not have much time for discussion boards other than Tractorbynet and Countrybynet, but from what little I've seen of them, these two still have the most civil members; i.e., the best bunch of members in the world.

And now I've rambled long enough. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

crown · Jul 24, 2005

Excellent post John.

I have noticed the same mean sprited post, bashing individuals that obviously put a lot of thought and facts in there post and if they don't suggest the brand "X" the flame wars begin. This is not the intent of the forum.

It is very sad to see many of the old timers fade away /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. TBN was very helpful to me when I purchased my tractor and I have always enjoyed the forum but the site has soured of late.

It is my hope that this tread will open the eyes of some and the site may once again regain its dignity.

It is ashame that the very VOCAL minority are driving away the less vocal and more curtious majority.

Lets hope we can begin a new era from this day forward and the flame wars and brand bashing will stop.

Indydirtfarmer · Jul 24, 2005

Boy, oh boy..... I saw this one coming.... Even had a couple off site conversations about the "issue". Here's my $.02 worth. (and worth about hat much)

First off, I'm relatively new to this site. HOWEVER, I've been around tractors for my entire life. I've owned a tractor oriented business for 30 years. I grew up on a dairy farm. I farm now. THIS AIN'T MY FIRST RODEO....

That being said, I learn a few things every day about the subject at hand.... (tractors) That's what KEEPS me here. And yes, I've learned a few things from some very unlikely sources. (My dad used to tell me that a WISE man would learn something from the least inteligent person he knows more than the vice-versa....)

Also, Like Bird said, with 20,000 "personalities" there's going to be a few that each of us find obnoxious, un educated, uncouth, or worse......

Just like everyday life itself, there's going to be almost as many people you DON'T like as there is ones you do.

I've had people "tell me how it is" on here that I'm absolutely convinced they had no concept of what they speak of. (For instance, I have certification in pesticide application in 3 states. I TEACH the same in one state. Then I get someone who 3 days earlier was asking "entry level questions" on sprayers, telling me all about laws pertaining to pesticide application. Rather than have an "on-site" battle of the bulge, I just let go. The person involved "knew more than I did" in his mind. I wasn't going to change his mind. I ALSO wasn't going to make a fool out of myself, argueing with someone that just wasn't worth the fight.

I've been in on a few websites from day one. Some are about ruined by "trolls" that move in and take over. They run off the ones who made the site what it was/is. That's just the way it is on the internet. (Obviously, Al Gore didn't "invent" the perfect internet....LOL)

My final thoughts.... Rather than give in or give up, I think it's the responsibility of those who "make" a website what it is to stick with it. It's perfectly acceptable to just ignore the trouble-makers. Like the old saying goes, "It takes a big man to WALK AWAY from a fight".

shoppintractors · Jul 24, 2005

Some very well thoughtout and meaningful posts.

As Bird said, TBN is a growing community of people. Within the community there are neighborhoods....and there will and always be differing characters with differing opinions and disagreements.

It takes some compromise for all to get along. Kinda like in the political arena. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Will cooler heads prevail? I sure think it's possible. TBN hasn't come this far without the input of many incredible, knowledgeable and helpful folks. Sometimes you have to roll back a tad from the computer screen (smell the 'flower' posts, per say) and appreciate the diverse group of people that make up this evergrowing community.

Don

hobbyfarm · Jul 24, 2005

Can't we all just get along?

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Muhammad · Jul 24, 2005

This is a topic that has come up on a somewhat regular basis over the past five or so years. First when we had about 500 registered members, than at 5k, then 10k, 15k, and now 20k. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Yes it's true, TBN has grown a lot and the increase in population does increase the chances of "bickering" among members. Especially these days when we have so many new people, it's hard to expect each and every one of them to want to be nice, agreeable and open-minded about certain topics.

Another factor is that we have all makes and models discussed in one big open room, so to speak. I haven't found many other popular forums where this works as well as it does here. For example, if you go to "the" digital camera forum, you will find that tall, thick walls separate each brand discussion. Whenever those walls are crossed, there is nothing less than an all-out flame war (i.e. fighting). That would hold true for almost all other forums I frequent.

So what I'm saying is that while owner brand wars will always exist, I think we do a much better job here of being friendly about it than other corners of the internet.

As you all know by now, we do have a very good team of moderators who do their best at "keep the peace" here. Available to all members is the notify moderator link (on every post). When you notify us of a post, we review it for content and make any suggestions or deletions necessary.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 24, 2005

( Can't we all just get along?

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif )

Sure, if people would act like mature adults. But the gang up mentality that is driving away thoughtful posts is not the action of a mature adult. The picking apart of posts and parcing the original statements to modify the intent to project a different meaing is not the action of a mature adult. The outright attacks of posts and the intentional diversion of a thread to take it off track are not the actions of a mature adult. Forcing brands down the throats of others, and injecting them into threads when the poster asks about specific brands that do not include those brands, these are all not the actions of mature adults. Its a crying shame that we can't compare 2 or 3 brands without people saying that the comparision is bashing. But what is worse than all of that is that people who have a lot to contribute now avoid posting advice out of fear of getting flamed.

And those are things that really have been occuring on many of the threads over the past few months.