Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion

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/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #21  
NewToy said:
With the record profits that the oil companies are making it's a darn shame that they cannot maintain their infrastructure. I don't care if it is a real bear to diagnose this problem, they should be on top of it. They have no incentive to do so as they just pass the additional costs directly to the end user. (Us)
They should be held accountable for their ineptitude, fine them a few billion or so. The fellow in charge of their pipeline maintenance should be set adrift on an iceberg.

John

Hi John,
I have to agree ! What I really have a problem with is the fact that no one has even checked this section of pipeline in 6 years :confused:

OK, Im not going to get into an argument about how much profit these people make, but to not do PM on a vital oil artery and have billions in their coffer is inexcuseable IMHO !!!
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #23  
scesnick said:
LTMC,
In other words you are a stock holder and could care less the that the rest of america is getting robbed blind. As long as you are making your money eveything is good. How do you figure the public has a choice not to buy their product? People have to get to work don't they? and I know I can not walk 45 miles in one day. The 2 big oil companies own all the gas stations in my area so how do you figure I have a choice not to buy thier product? And get raped in the process. If I could buy from a small independant company i would in a heart beat.
I'm guessing as long as you get yours then then the rest of america can just lump it.

I work for the Gov't and my salary is decided on by congress, which are elected officials, who were elected by the american voters, which most likely is you. So, actually you dictate how much money I make.

Wow, is your scope ever limited. What limits your, or anyone's, job opportunities is ability, willingness to work, availability of positions, etc. Show me the federal decree that says you have to stay in that job.

It never ceases to amaze me that some people simply feel rather than think. You, for example, are convinced I own stock in an oil company to take the position I do. I do not...unless it is in the holding somewhere of my Fidelity retirement account, and I truly don't know...or care. My position is based on principle. If I personally dictated how much money you make you wouldn't get a dime until you took an economics 101 course.

"Robbed blind" What does that mean? Are you blind? How are you being robbed? Have you filed a police report? This is the silly stuff that takes all this out of the sphere of ideas and discussion and buries it in the morass of emotion. Of course there's a choice. Do the gasoline police come to your house routinely and march you at gunpoint to the pumps? Of course not. Walk. Ride a bike. Get a job closer to home. Live on less. Are the options pleasant? No..that's the point. That is what makes the product so valuable.

If you would channel the same energy & attention into thinking this through that you are using in making assumptions (I own oil stock, as long as I'm getting mine the rest of America can just lump it) then some discussion might be possible.
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #24  
Good thing we have folks like LMTC telling us what we need and dont need and the choices we evidently have based on his opinion. Oh yeah dont forget Economics 101 before you can converse with him....what a windbag

Simple logic - pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered.....want to guess who the hogs are?
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #25  
scesnick said:
Yes, we all work for profit. But, there is a big difference between charging an honest wage and just plain putting the screws to someone.
There is absolutely no shortage of oil, What there is a shortage of is oil companies that are not greedy as can be. Exxon made a profit of over 10 billion just this last quarter !!!! C'Mon, how about giving the american people a break and only make a measily 5 billion !!!!!
I absolutely don't understand this logic.

If Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods make an extra few million dollars in endorcement deals is that "fair" or is that too much? If Jane Fonda or Mel Gibson make $20,000,000.00 on a movie (heck I heard Gibson made a half-BILLION dollars on The Passion of The Christ) is that "fair" or too much?

Oil Companies work on a % margin. They buy and sell the oil, they refine it into gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc. But for the most part the individual retailers set the price, and competition keeps the price as low as possible. Exxon may make record profits due to the high price per barrel and the % mark-up but where were you people who are complaining today when all the oil companies were LOSING money a few years ago (and making the same % mark-up)?

I suggest that people who do not understand the free market, and how EFFICIENT it really is at keeping the price LOW really need to go to a socialist nation and see what life is like when the government gets involved in the industries. Its not pretty.
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #26  
Sorry Scesnick, I don't have any sympathy. It was your choice to live where you live and who you work for. I learned back in 1976 that fuel prices will always increase so prepare accordingly. They will continue above $3 a gallon and at some future date will hit $4, $5.... Paint will cost more, food, insurance, taxes will be higher. Tell this story to the rest of the world and you won't get an ounce of sympathy. The worlds changing like it or not. Most of our oil comes from outside the US and that is where we loose control. We are addicted to it and are just now beginning to understand just what that means. Opening up more oil sources in the US will not drastically reduce the cost of gas but will help control the wild fluctuations we see in the daily per barrel price of oil. Yep, the good old days are gone but that does not mean the future is bad...
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #27  
Bob_Skurka said:
I absolutely don't understand this logic.

If Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods make an extra few million dollars in endorcement deals is that "fair" or is that too much? If Jane Fonda or Mel Gibson make $20,000,000.00 on a movie (heck I heard Gibson made a half-BILLION dollars on The Passion of The Christ) is that "fair" or too much?

Oil Companies work on a % margin. They buy and sell the oil, they refine it into gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc. But for the most part the individual retailers set the price, and competition keeps the price as low as possible. Exxon may make record profits due to the high price per barrel and the % mark-up but where were you people who are complaining today when all the oil companies were LOSING money a few years ago (and making the same % mark-up)?

I suggest that people who do not understand the free market, and how EFFICIENT it really is at keeping the price LOW really need to go to a socialist nation and see what life is like when the government gets involved in the industries. Its not pretty.

Too bad Bob I would expect a better position and arguement from you - a few years ago was around 9/11 so who wasnt losing money then? thats because we were in a recession. I would say the airlines lost the most wouldnt you? There is no competition since this isnt a natural free market enviroment we are talking about - Did it dawn on you that this free market commodity has a direct cause and effect on inflation (everything you buy)? So there is no escaping its wrath. So much more to argue on this subject but i think its easier just to paint you as someone who enjoys spending money and is totally ok with the status quo. Just dont pump the standard line that its not the Oil companies fault because it is - otherwise you are selling a lie and prepetuating it.....
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #28  
ducati996 said:
Too bad Bob I would expect a better position and arguement from you - a few years ago was around 9/11 so who wasnt losing money then? thats because we were in a recession.
9/11 was in 2001. A few years ago, was 2003 and if you look at the stocks and profits of the oil companies, they were in the toilet after the "recession" you speak of was well into a recovery. So your view of history is flawed. But if you go back farther into history you will see the oil companies have cycles of profits and losses and they are based on many factors, one of the main factors is the price of the raw oil. The higher their costs the higher their profits, but the lower their costs the more money they loose.
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #29  
_RaT_ said:
Sorry Scesnick, I don't have any sympathy. It was your choice to live where you live and who you work for. I learned back in 1976 that fuel prices will always increase so prepare accordingly. They will continue above $3 a gallon and at some future date will hit $4, $5.... Paint will cost more, food, insurance, taxes will be higher. Tell this story to the rest of the world and you won't get an ounce of sympathy. The worlds changing like it or not. Most of our oil comes from outside the US and that is where we loose control. We are addicted to it and are just now beginning to understand just what that means. Opening up more oil sources in the US will not drastically reduce the cost of gas but will help control the wild fluctuations we see in the daily per barrel price of oil. Yep, the good old days are gone but that does not mean the future is bad...
As usual, there is always more to each side of a story. Let's look at power, gas companies and other "monopolies" that are regulated by some sort of PUC (state public utilities commision). If these commisions didn't somewhat regulate prices, the Enron scenario from the early 2000's would have blown up even more and our electric prices would be sky high. Yes, the prices have gone up, but they are regulated and the rise is controlled.

In the Enron case, the price gains were illegal and artificial and lots of people lost a lot of money in the form of higher energy prices, investors that saw their stock become worthless and employees that lost their jobs and lost a large part of their life savings.

With oil the situation is similar, however, a large cartel - OPEC - controls a lot of the world oil production and can dictate output to give them a price that they like - to some degree. With world consumption at an all time high and a few trouble spots around the world, the price shoots up, however, the costs don't shoot up. Let's look at the oil the companies are pumping from government lands. They still pay the same $/gallon royalty to uncle sam, no matter what the price of oil is. I am not 100% on actual $ amount the oil companies are paying, but here is a link to an article that tries to shed some light on this: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/business/14oil.html?ex=1297573200&en=87dc413fa6add582&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=r

There are lots more articles out there, just google them.

Back to the original point, there are not any alternatives (at least not viable right now) to our situation, however, some regulation will have to eventually happen unless we want to go into a period of stagflation as everything you buy is transported by trucks that use oil (diesel) to bring the products to market. That cost will get passed onto the consumer, that will not be able to buy other goods as the essentials (food, clothing, shelter & energy) will consume most of their disposable income. This will cause a shrinking economy if you take out the food and energy sectors, combine that with rising interest rates as we currently have and we are in stagflation.

This could be the same scenario as in the 70's or early 80's (don't you love when history repeats itself).

I think a lot of the public outcry is that oil companies are paying uncle sam the same amount of every barrel pumped but charging the consumer market prices and "profiting" the difference. Combine that with shoddy maintenance (look at BP) that causes breakdowns and a rise in prices and you can see the consumer being up in arms about this.

I am by no ways an economist and I also didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, however, I find it difficult to simply look at the 2 view points (bad/greedy oil companies vs. good for stock holder oil companies). The solution is ?????? (to be determined), however, the long term fix is reduced consumption, however, that could be decades away.

Derek
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #30  
_RaT_ said:
Sorry Scesnick, I don't have any sympathy. It was your choice to live where you live and who you work for. I learned back in 1976 that fuel prices will always increase so prepare accordingly. They will continue above $3 a gallon and at some future date will hit $4, $5.... Paint will cost more, food, insurance, taxes will be higher. Tell this story to the rest of the world and you won't get an ounce of sympathy. The worlds changing like it or not. Most of our oil comes from outside the US and that is where we loose control. We are addicted to it and are just now beginning to understand just what that means. Opening up more oil sources in the US will not drastically reduce the cost of gas but will help control the wild fluctuations we see in the daily per barrel price of oil. Yep, the good old days are gone but that does not mean the future is bad...

I wish you were adding something that we didnt know - other than you dont give a hoot either.....you will find the majority of folks do, it dosent matter if they get vocal on this board but dont get too confident in your position as being the majority.
You supporters just leave out the speculation aspect which is totally in the command of the institutional brokers who of course make money on futures. You have no idea how strong the Big Oil has influence in this area as well as the analysts in the industry. All singing as one voice in the hyping of any world or weather related event which really nevers effects any shipments or production directly, to the extent that they hype it to be. All this added about $30 dollars per barrel. Its not the demand from China which everybody in support just recites like a playbook of automated responses when challenged.....the real price of oil should be in the mid $40's range. What we need now is a good economic slowdown (which proabaly will happen soon enough) that will drop the demand and erase all the profits ( and yeah I wont be giving a hoot), and we can pick up this thread then :)
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #31  
Bob_Skurka said:
9/11 was in 2001. A few years ago, was 2003 and if you look at the stocks and profits of the oil companies, they were in the toilet after the "recession" you speak of was well into a recovery. So your view of history is flawed. But if you go back farther into history you will see the oil companies have cycles of profits and losses and they are based on many factors, one of the main factors is the price of the raw oil. The higher their costs the higher their profits, but the lower their costs the more money they loose.

Ok Bob what ever you say - since the recession (or economic slowdown) lasted a while, and started in 2000, and lasted past 9/11(but that really pushed demand to a new low) on up into late or early 2003 what the heck - its on the oils 10q's as being a reason, so dont take my word for it -
What you failed to mentioned is that a lot of the their costs are fixed and have gone down (better technologies), so their profits go up. But its a different animal controlling the market, and playing with supply....oh by the way thanks for the history lesson, I find Im pretty much in the know and in sync with the times...
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #32  
Oh if we decide on how we are going define what a ression is or an economic slowdown is, we will not be looking at when the Admin announced it - usualy thats the last thing in the world they want to announce( its basically admittting your policies are a failure) - but look at the GNP, employment rate, layoffs, Industry annoucments, etc.. the real indicators that the "real Joe schmoe " of america deals with everyday

Duc
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #33  
ducati996 said:
Good thing we have folks like LMTC telling us what we need and dont need and the choices we evidently have based on his opinion. Oh yeah dont forget Economics 101 before you can converse with him....what a windbag

Simple logic - pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered.....want to guess who the hogs are?
1. If what the oil companies are making now is too much, what's the right amount of profit?

2. Who will set this amount?

3. How will it be enforced?

4. How will it lower fuel prices?
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #34  
MikePA said:
1. If what the oil companies are making now is too much, what's the right amount of profit?

2. Who will set this amount?

3. How will it be enforced?

4. How will it lower fuel prices?

Are you looking to be educated or give education? Try answering your own questions first, and then I will either add my comments or agree/disagree to what you say...in other words contribute to the converstaion first in someway, otherwise you get ignored
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #36  
ducati996 said:
Are you looking to be educated or give education? Try answering your own questions first, and then I will either add my comments or agree/disagree to what you say...in other words contribute to the converstaion first in someway, otherwise you get ignored
I asked four simple questions of someone who believes the oil companies are making too much profit. If you don't want to, or can't, answer them say so. People who propose a change should have the integrity to show how it will be better and not hide behind personal attacks as you and scesnick have.
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #37  
MikePA said:
I asked four simple questions of someone who believes the oil companies are making too much profit. If you don't want to, or can't, answer them say so.

BTW, I could care less if you ignore me. Your response is what I expected.

So is yours...scripted and by the play book - sorry I dont play by your rules find someone else for that game....
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #38  
ducati996 said:
So is yours...scripted and by the play book - sorry I dont play by your rules find someone else for that game....
There is no playbook and you obviously do not want to engage in a civil discussion.
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #39  
ducati996 said:
Are you looking to be educated or give education? Try answering your own questions first, and then I will either add my comments or agree/disagree to what you say...in other words contribute to the converstaion first in someway, otherwise you get ignored

Ducati, that sure doesn't make much sense to me. Most of us ask questions when we don't know the answers and hope someone else does. Personally, I thought Mike asked some good questions and I'd like to hear any possible answers. Do you really think a person should not ask a question without answering his own question.:confused: :confused:
 
/ Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion #40  
MikePA,
In 1973 president Nixon imposed, by executive order, a ceiling on the price of crude oil During the oil crisis.
Why can't the Gov't do this again? Or impose some sort of Winfall tax?? While I'm not going to try and explain how this worked here on this forum, And I am not going to pretend to know everything about what and how this happend, ( I was only 3yrs. old at the time) This pretty much should answer your questions if you do some research.

Or, we could just simply bury our heads in the sand, let the price spiral out of control and just go along with the status quo.

For the guys here that think everything is just fine and this is business as usual, I ask you this. At what price are you personally going to say enough is enough already? $5-$6-$10 a gallon????
If we just do nothing and the price gets to $10 a gallon America WILL (not might) be shut down.
Truckers will not be able to afford to haul our goods, along with the railroad. And those two transportation businesses are the backbone of America.
Airline companies are already barely getting by now. The big 3 automotive manufacturers will shut down. A major depression will quickly rear its ugly head.
See where i am going with this ???

As a matter of fact the largest trucking company ( Schnieder) is already shutting down for one day and fuel is only at $3.10 now !!!!
So what is your personal price????
 
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